Why fixtures/props & a bit of frustration & questions

[Darryl Lambert]

Trying to use the visualizer for the first time & unable grasp the logic behind it.

Why are there fixtures & props in the fist place? I'm still using the old animation window but because I'm trying to create Two -  13 x 105 pixel matrices for superstar I've ended up here.

 

Why can't we just draw a prop like we want to see it? I'm finding it a bit frustrating to say the least. I see all these different workarounds to do anything in the visualizer. If you have props that are similar why can't you just group them like the sequence editor? 

 

I've started to draw my martix with the ccr fakout method .What I end up with is 39 fixtures & 13 props ,forget about the channel assignment part. Surely ther must be a simpler way? It didn't even import into superstar correctly.

Why Can't  I draw my CCB's with 100 pixels & not  be forced into assigning 2 unit Id's? At least that would cut my fixture count down some.

 

Just drawing the 13 stings & keeping them with the same space apart and aligned at the bottom is a challenge. Is there no way to select them all & just align them? Even if I could zoom in to see them a little closer that would help but no zoom that I saw.

 

Are they going to release a new update of the visualizer with some better kind of pixel support ? Like a pixel wizard maybe?

 

All I was looking for was an easy way to get this matrix into superstar so I could evaluate that software & decide if I was going to pony up for that upgrade.

 

I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[jimswinder]

Did you try using the CCR Matrix Wizard in the Visualizer?

 

10th Button over on bottom row of Tool Buttons

 

Save your matrix Visualization

 

Then Import this Visualization into Superstar...

 

PS You may have to create several smaller matrices to get the size you want...

Edited January 21, 2015 by jimswinder

[Darryl Lambert]

I have tried this but it will only go 50 pixels high. Plus it doesn't give you option to have zigzag for strings. I needed 105 high. Can you merge visualizations inside superstar?

[jimswinder]

Have you tried Nutcracker?

 

http://nutcracker123.com/nutcracker/releases/

[Darryl Lambert]

yeah I've been using it for my pixeltree. I just wanted to try superstar with the matrices I'm building for this. I know I won't be able to export. I wanted to use superstar & trying to decide if I want upgrade my license . I've already waisted 4+ hours trying to do this

[jimswinder]

 I've already waisted 4+ hours trying to do this

 

 

Only 4???   LOL

[Darryl Lambert]

That was last night, Another 2 tonight

[sax]

If all you are doing is matrixes then you don't need visualizer for import. You can create the matrixes in superstar.

I have pixel net lights that are 105 pixels...2 of these. I manually input a row by creating each pixel. I try to get the pixels as lined up as possible. But after I have one row I copy, paste for the next row, then the next. Then I have to go back and get the dmx universe and channel correct. The easiest way is to create a prop and then start adding each pixel to that prop and then use the rename wizard.

Once I create one, I copy and paste the entire prop for the second one. Use rename wizard. Use channel wizard.

Zoom is possible by resizing the prop. Drag and click the corner just as if it were an image or picture in any Microsoft product like word or excel. You can resize fixtures too. Same thing. To really zoom in you can resize your background image then zoom your fixture or prop.

If I had a matrix, I would create a fixture that is all pixels horizontally. Copy that and add all vertical ones. I would rename each line a new fixture. Example, first row I would name matrix r1. After a copy and paste it will be named automatically to matrix r1 copy. I would rename to matrix r2. Continue on until all rows done. Then I would create a new prop and add each fixture to that prop, making sure to get r1 to the last row in order. Then use the rename wizard. Then Channel wizard. You can name it whatever you want and the channels will be made for you as "your name" pixel 1....2....3 etc.

The only issue here is it may need to be more than one prop. Then you have to try to keep the 2 props lined up once you are done....so you would have to choose a good point to seperate them.

I would not use any fake out personally. If you do I think the prop can't be used with the sequence editor. Yes, it will work in superstar but the channels won't match up between sequence editor and visualizer. Unless you tell sequence editor they are CCRs when they are really dmx.

[Darryl Lambert]

I'm trying to build two separate matrices each will be 13 wide x 105 tall with pixels.

If all you are doing is matrixes then you don't need visualizer for import. You can create the matrixes in superstar.

The matix tool in superstar only lets you build to 50 pixels high.

 

 

Zoom is possible by resizing the prop. Drag and click the corner just as if it were

If I had a matrix, I would create a fixture that is all pixels horizontally. Copy that and add all vertical ones. I would rename each line a new fixture. Example, first row I would name matrix r1. After a copy and paste it will be named automatically to matrix r1 copy. I would rename to matrix r2. Continue on until all rows done. Then I would create a new prop and add each fixture to that prop, making sure to get r1 to the last row in order. Then use the rename wizard. Then Channel wizard. You can name it whatever you want and the channels will be made for you as "your name" pixel 1....2....3 etc.

 

which tool lets you draw pixels into a fixture?

everything i've tried I always run into this 50 pixel limit. It's definately frustrating.

Are we talking about me having to draw/name & assign channels  for each of the 2730 pixels one at a time.

I'm don't use you visualizer at all so I'm new to this part. I know that theres a bit of a learning curve with any software but this seems a little crazy.

I don't know why they went with this methodology at all. Why couldn't you just draw a prop ( copy said prop if you need to ) & just group props together similar to the sequence editor. To me that's the way I'd like to see it. 

 

I've tried the fake out method & drawing separate ccr's. It took 39 fixtures to do it. Assigned all channels then saved it to import into superstar only to find that the order of each vertical row was messed up .Either out of order or it would draw most of the fixtures together 50 pixels high. In all the different attemps i've tried it almost always is messed up. I've even tried the superstar keywords that you can put in the comment line of props & still it's messed up. Only once did it work correctly. I had a superstar sample open ( I saw three ships ) when I imported the vis. file everything was where it should be. I thought finally but when I went to new sequence it went away & I haven't been able to get it back again.

 

I've now spent more than 8 hours trying to do this ( I know some of this time is because it's new to me ) but it should not be this hard. I didn't think I was that stupid but I'm begining to wonder.

 

I only wanted to play around with superstar to see if I was going to upgrade my license for it, But if I'm having this much trouble with my matrix forget me going to the trouble of putting the rest of my house in there ( 12000 channels )

 

Sorry about the long post I'm just frustrated with this & I give up.

[sax]

So to me you are wasting a lot of time trying so many different things to try to get it done fast. Unfortunately visualizer is not fast when it comes to pixels.

Now, if you have a ccr....piece of cake. And you should be able to do several CCRs in a row easy. But you are missing on a few of the concepts of visualizer.

First, visualizer has fixtures and props. You can have both, but props can have one or more fixtures.

Pixels are a huge task. So to try to help you understand how this works together, I will give a simple example.

If I have an element that has 10 channels, I want to be able to control each channel but it would be nice to move this element as one in visualizer. I can create a prop, add the 10 fixtures and now have control of each channel but be able to move these 10 channels as a single prop. If they are channels 1-10 and I have 2 of these elements with the other being channels 11-20, I can copy the prop. I can paste the prop and use the Wizards in the prop window to rename it and to automatically change the channels to 11-20.

This is how I do my pumpkins, singing faces, spotlights and many other elements.

Pixels are different. There is nothing in visualizer to help you make several. Some use the fake out but that has its own limitations and problems. Me, I make each pixel by using the single bulb tool. I just start putting my bulbs on the screen using the grid. This gets it straight for me. I create each bulb one at a time for my trees and bushes. For my strip lights or my pixel nets I create a row, then copy and paste. It is time consuming. It does not go fast. I have 2 sets of nets. I only have to create one and then copy and paste the first created prop to create the second one. 105 pixels for one net. Yes, 315 channels. 2 of these are 630 channels for just 2 of my elements. But I only have to create one, then copy and paste to get the second.

That is how I would create your matrix. Make one row, copy paste. One pixel at a time for first row. Other rows created copy paste.

When you are done with pixels or CCRs one thing you need to know is where is pixel 1. It matters of course. So if you are running a matrix 1-50-51-100 in this zig zag, you need to make sure you have it right in visualizer. By placing each pixel manually, I know it is correct. So when I import to superstar it is in order. I don't know how the fake out works when it comes to numbering. But I want to be able to use my visualizer after all my work. Fake out doesn't work. So that is why I don't mess with it.

When you import into superstar, it automatically assigns the elements in the grid based on your import preferences and how they are laid out. You decide how wide the grid is, if you have more than the default 50 you need to change this value. And it also helps for you to put your elements in locations to help the sw keep them aligned. For a grid this should be no problem. But if you have other pieces then sometimes you have to adjust the layout.

Xlights works the same. I had to create my elements one pixel at a time.

There are tutorials on visualizer and superstar. I don't know if you've looked at those. But they are helpful.

If you are still struggling let me know. I can give some screen shots to help you if needed.

[sax]

Just read this post

http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/33483-superstar-dmx-keyword-for-use-in-visualizations/

There is a 1000 fixture limit. So my method requires you to have 3000 or less rgb channels since each light is a fixture.

Have you tried this method Brian has detailed?

[plasmadrive]

Darryl,

 

I am with you.  I bought the 24CCR level and the SS and have been unable to use either due to the confusion and time required to get the darn thing going.  I gave up two years ago on it... I assume it has changed and I was going to give it another shot... but... now not so sure. 

 

For the last two years I have also used Xlights for pixels and imported them as clipboards into LOR.  It has worked pretty well but I sure wish I could see it in the visualizer.  I have about 6000 channels total and that puts me way over the limit.  When I had no RGB I still could not wrap my head around it.  The animator worked just fine along with my imagination.. but that thing is cluncky so I only put in a section of the larger props and just imagine how it looks.

 

So when the Visualizer magic bullet comes along.. I will be a happy boy.. keep us posted how you come out on this..

 

Craig

[saxon]

Darryl -

 The way I have been doing my pixels - "Keywords". After reading this post last night, I made a mock 105X8 pixel matrix last night in about 15 minutes, and it worked great in SS. Yes, for a 105X13 there are 13 props and 39 fixtures (drop the 105 to 100 and you will have 26 fixtures). With keywords you don't assign IDs (SS ignores Ids). I think it is great but, this is only MHO.

 

Pm me your email and I will send the file and you can see if it is what you are after. I could have it all wrong but if I don't I will be more than happy to help you if you need it.

 

~Matt

[Darryl Lambert]

Have you tried this method Brian has detailed?

I have read this & tried it but no luck before.

So tonight I made another attempt. Started with a new visulizer & created two 13 x 105 matrices. Using Brians DMX keyword. This is not the first time I've tried it , I think my third. I paid a little more attention to keeping the rows & columns evenly spaced. Imported into superstar & everything was correct!! I don't know if the spacing made a difference, if it did then it's alot more finickey than I thought.

As well this particular issue with the visualizer not being the same when importing into superstar might not be the visualizer at all. It could be the way superstar interprets the file.

 

That being said I still won't be using the visualizer for the forseeable future. I find it to ackward to use especially for pixels. Maybe with the next update it will be more pixel friendly. I still use the old animation window. It works well enough for me.

This whole excercise is the reason I haven't upgraded my superstar license yet, because superstar is tied to the visualizer & getting my layout into superstar is painfull at best. I don't know if I'm going to bother trying to get my the rest of my house into superstar ( another 750 pixels outlining roof/windows/doors ) after this, let alone my 3200 pixeltree. Besides even the highest superstar license won't handle that many channels.

 

Thanks sax for the offer & advice