Light-o-Rama, DMX and Other Controllers Oh My!

[HappyMommy]

Hi folks! Let me start by saying that my husband and I have each been lurkers around here for quite some time, trying to take advantage of the wealth of knowledge that this community obviously represents. Unfortunately, being newbies, I think we've gotten a bit lost and are hoping to gain a better understanding of a few things.

 

When it comes to our knowledgebase, my husband is the "electronics" guru while I have a little better understanding of technology/networking concepts etc. He puts together an awesome prop driven show every year for Halloween and a few years ago, we started a projection show on the house to go along with it, then adding a Christmas show as well. We've decided, with 100% certainty (based on the sheer number of lights I bought on clearance this year) that we are doing a light show for Christmas 2015. We've known for quite some time now that we wanted to go with Light-o-Rama when we finally did this however now that we are in the thick of things, lights in hand and no going back, we're getting lost. What I'm looking to better understand I suppose is quite general at first, knowing that a lot of details need to be understood to go much further.

 

We know that we want to use the LOR software however what we don't completely understand is:

1. Specifically what controllers can be used with the LOR software? Is it any that use a certain set of protocols? If so, what are the protocols the software recognizes in a "universe?"
2. Does there have to be an LOR controller in the setup for things to work properly or can it literally be a bunch of compatible non-LOR controllers?
3. How are controllers of different types connected together? More specifically, we are looking for some basic "how tos" in this arena (i.e. to connect an LOR to a DMX controller you have to have X type of cable etc.).

We haven't yet bought any controllers and really want to fully understand what can and can't be used, and what the easiest options are, before we do.

 

Thanks in advance for helping a pair of newbies! Between his electronics experience and my general "techy" brain I'm sure it's the sort of thing that once we get the basics, we will be able to fill in a lot of blanks, but in our research we just haven't found anything that has truly painted a clear picture for us. My personal hope was to find a light show guru who would be willing to let us pick their brain fairly directly but I figure a forum is a fantastic way to find multiple gurus and get the same result!

 

I am sure I'll have more questions as we get further through this but any help you all can provide would be fantastic!!

[dgrant]

Welcome!! This is the world of blinky/flashy lights and then some and possibly a bit of madness...lol. The smartest thing you are doing is by starting now. Seriously, it will take this whole next 10 months to plan, acquire, fabricate and sequence whatever you wish to happen in your yard/house. The first step is simple. Take a photo of the front of your home and save it on the computer. Print out multiple copies and start drawing strings of lights on it and based upon how you wish to control them. This will dictate your hardware requirements. Also, that same photo will be used in the visualizer program. Next thing, start by carefully watching the video tutorials on the LOR site and here on top of this page. They will cover almost everything you need to know to get started.

 

We believe there are serious changes coming soon from LOR in regards to their software at a minimum, or at least we hope so. Now depending on if you are wanting to get into RGB or not your first year, I'll keep it simple. RGB come in two flavors...Smart or Intelliigent and Dumb. They are not the same and different controllers for each. These are also different than just turning on a string of lights with an AC controller. Everything depends on what you wish to see out there. So, backing up a hair, AC controllers will turn on/off/fade/twinkle/shimmer any string of lights you connect to that channel. AC controllers usually have 16 channels or AC outputs. There are current limits on them.

 

Dumb RGB strips/strings are where the entire strip/string is all one color, any color but all one. You change it on the fly in the SE(Sequencer Editor) as you wish. These run off an LOR CMB24 and a 12 volt power supply. If its outside, you'll need an enclosure such as a CG1500 and possibly a stand of some sort. These will run on the LOR RS485 network which is the standard.

 

Intelligent or Smart pixels/nodes, require a controller such as the SanDevices cards, JoshuaSystems card or Pixlite card. Each individual LED on the strip/string is individually addressable therefore the special controller. These work on E1.31 protocol which is DMX over TCPIP. Its a whole lot easier than it sounds so don't let that bother you and yes, we can help you. Once you wrap your head around it, you'll understand how easy it is. These too will require a power supply to match the nodes you buy and an enclosure it its outside.

 

Again, welcome to the madness and be aware, you are being smart to start now!

Edited January 12, 2015 by dgrant

[Plumber Plays with Lights]

Another newbie chiming in. The little white dmx controllers at Ray Wu and Holiday Coro. Do those work by themselfs or do they answer to a bigger dmx controller?

[jonnyci]

The small white DMX controllers you are referencing Plumber, do work by themselves, however you need to keep in mind that they will come with a set IP address, usually 1, unless you tell them in advance what IP address you want.  Holiday Coro sells a tool/software that allows you to set the IP addresses of those dumb controllers, however it looks like he will be offering a dip switch version in the near future.

[Tim Benson]

We know that we want to use the LOR software however what we don't completely understand is:

1. Specifically what controllers can be used with the LOR software? Is it any that use a certain set of protocols? If so, what are the protocols the software recognizes in a "universe?"

LOR Software Supports the following Protocols

 

LOR Protocol   (only used by LOR controllers) 

DMX E1.11  (DMX over a serial connection)      

DMX E.1.31 (DMX over ethernet networking)

Dasher Protocol  (old DIY protocol)

X-10  Old home automation protocol

 

1. Does there have to be an LOR controller in the setup for things to work properly or can it literally be a bunch of compatible non-LOR controllers?

No, there do not need to be any LOR controllers at all, but you will need the Advanced License for the non LOR

protocols to be enabled

 

1. How are controllers of different types connected together? More specifically, we are looking for some basic "how tos" in this arena (i.e. to connect an LOR to a DMX controller you have to have X type of cable etc.).

This really depends on what type of controllers you are using, but basically DMX  E1.11 has 3  wires, D+ D- and ground as long as those are connected correctly, it works.    If you go to DMX E1.31, it's all standard Ethernet networking.

 

 

Figure out what you want to do first, then select the hardware that fits your needs.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Tim Benson

[k6ccc]

The small white DMX controllers you are referencing Plumber, do work by themselves, however you need to keep in mind that they will come with a set IP address, usually 1, unless you tell them in advance what IP address you want.  Holiday Coro sells a tool/software that allows you to set the IP addresses of those dumb controllers, however it looks like he will be offering a dip switch version in the near future.

 

I'm going to correct this to avoid confusion.  The little white DMX boxes have absolutely NOTHING to do with an IP address.  They have a DMX unit ID (or address), but it is not internet protocol (IP) in any way.  They are connected via a serial RS-485 connection and really don't know anything about how they area addressed except the unit ID.  They also know nothing about what DMX universe they are on.  The DMX address for these boxes is set with a small programmer that is available from several sources - including Holiday Coro.  From some vendors you can also specify what address to use.

 

They are also not a stand alone device.  They only do what they are told to do.  When using DMX devices, they will have a RS-485 serial connection that they receive instructions from.  The instructions may come from a computer via a RS-485 transceiver, or maybe some other device that stores a sequence.

 

One other things I'm going to add because so many new people mix this up.  The RS-485 is not compatible with your ethernet LAN.  Not only will it not work, but you risk physical damage to either your ethernet LAN device or a LOR device.  Yes, they both use 8 conductor RJ-45 connectors, but they are not compatible.  BTW, before someone corrects me, it really is not an RJ-45 - it's really an 8P8C, but almost everybody knows of it incorrectly as RJ-45.

 

[bisquit476]

I recommend newbies join the http://auschristmaslighting.com website and download and read fasteddy's

 

AusChristmasLighting 101 Manual

 

it will answer a lot of questions

[sax]

Another newbie chiming in. The little white dmx controllers at Ray Wu and Holiday Coro. Do those work by themselfs or do they answer to a bigger dmx controller?

One thing to keep in mind....there is a limit in dmx of channels and of devices. So when planning your dmx universe, be aware that if you use only these single controllers you will never reach the channel limit of 512. This of course limits the number of elements you can have.

To avoid hitting the devices limit, get the 27 channel controllers.

Also, you must first have a dmx protocol output. This is accomplished by entec pro or entec pro compatible devices (dongles) or e1.31 devices with dmx output. Both are available from Holiday Coro as well as many other companies.

I use the Holiday Coro actidongle (entec pro compatible) for my dmx universe and all my dumb rgb needs.

Edited January 13, 2015 by sax

[Grinch]

All LOR controllers talk to each other and are controlled by the software.  You can control them with a PC or you can get a stand alone controller such as the 1602Wg-MP3 or use the mini director.  LOR is not the cheapest route but is very easy to setup and get going with very few issues.   You need to decide how involved you want to get with the hardware.  Some people will tell you that the NON LOR controllers require a little more tinkering or setup to work together.  

[HappyMommy]

All LOR controllers talk to each other and are controlled by the software.  You can control them with a PC or you can get a stand alone controller such as the 1602Wg-MP3 or use the mini director.  LOR is not the cheapest route but is very easy to setup and get going with very few issues.   You need to decide how involved you want to get with the hardware.  Some people will tell you that the NON LOR controllers require a little more tinkering or setup to work together.  

Thanks for this response. I probably should've mentioned in my initial post that due to cost we are considering the other controller options but want to use the LOR software. That is ultimately why I need help to better understand what I can and cannot use.

 

We know that we want to use the LOR software however what we don't completely understand is:

1. Specifically what controllers can be used with the LOR software? Is it any that use a certain set of protocols? If so, what are the protocols the software recognizes in a "universe?"

LOR Software Supports the following Protocols

 

LOR Protocol   (only used by LOR controllers) 

DMX E1.11  (DMX over a serial connection)      

DMX E.1.31 (DMX over ethernet networking)

Dasher Protocol  (old DIY protocol)

X-10  Old home automation protocol

 

1. Does there have to be an LOR controller in the setup for things to work properly or can it literally be a bunch of compatible non-LOR controllers?

No, there do not need to be any LOR controllers at all, but you will need the Advanced License for the non LOR

protocols to be enabled

 

1. How are controllers of different types connected together? More specifically, we are looking for some basic "how tos" in this arena (i.e. to connect an LOR to a DMX controller you have to have X type of cable etc.).

This really depends on what type of controllers you are using, but basically DMX  E1.11 has 3  wires, D+ D- and ground as long as those are connected correctly, it works.    If you go to DMX E1.31, it's all standard Ethernet networking.

 

 

Figure out what you want to do first, then select the hardware that fits your needs.

This is a fantastic start for me so thank you! To be sure I understand, as long as a controller says it works on one of those protocols you listed, we can use it as part of our setup right? And, to further clarify, if we go with controllers that support DMX E1.31, they just essentially daisy chain via a standard CAT5? Other protocols may require some sort of special dongle or adapter or custom wiring right?

[dgrant]

The two main communication types most of us use, I think....lol, are the LOR buss which is RS485 and E1.31 which is TCPIP. Already mentioned above, these two type of comm, use the same Cat5/6 cables. They are NOT compatible with each other. LOR's RS485 buss, you do exactly what you said, dasiy chaining them from controller to controller. They are connected to a PC via a USB/RS485 adapter or you can use an LOR Director. Now E1.31 which is DMX over TCPIP, essentially you connect a network cable from a port on the computer to a Switch. This is a high speed data router that runs at GB speeds. You then connect a CAT5/6 from the switch, to the E1.31 controller, then configure all the controller firmware per your choices. Once that is done, its just a matter of assigning that controller in the SE(sequence editor) Network Preferences, setting up the universes there then sending the channel commands in for the formal sequencing effort. There's a few little tricks to make it run such as the control panel has to be launched even though a show isn't running yet so that it will in-turn, launch the E1.31 listener program and if you are going to have AC channels via the RS485 buss, then the USB/RS485 adapter has to be connected.

I've not gotten into the E1.11 ever so I don't know about it nor have I ever used Dasher or X10 but don't rule them out either as they might have applications for your display.

[jrock_at_rons]

I think this is on topic (and hopefully can clear somethings up)...

 

I'm planning to add 'dumb' RGB to my LOR display this year.  As I've read through a ton of RGB documentation and forums posts, this is what I've come up with in terms of the netowork flow/connections for my first RGB elements (27 channels). 

 

PC (running advanced LOR) --> USB-RS485 dongle --> Enttec ActiDongle --> HC 27 channel DMX controller --> LOR controller (1) --> LOR controller (2)

 

Am I on the right path?... missing something, have too much?

[dgrant]

I don't know that the holiday coro dongles or their controllers are compatible with LOR's RS485 network. You might have to establish a different path/network for those on their own. Now LOR's CMB24 will run on the LOR RS485 network without issue.

Edited January 13, 2015 by dgrant

[kiplorenzo]

You might also want to look at a site called DIYLightAnimation.com

They do a lot with different dongles and the site is more DIY.

 

 

Kip

[Darryl Lambert]

LOR & DMX can be daisychained, E1.31 is not. If using more than 1- e131 device you will need a network switch or a E1.31 bridge.

HappyMommy you said you bought lights on clearance?

Are these just regular incandescent strings and /or led strings?

The reason I ask is that if they are you will be using AC controllers. Sandevice & pixlite are for pixels unless you bought Gece strings you won't need these.

If using AC controllers you'll be limited to LOR & renard ( they are in kit form & need to be soldered) I think there's others but can't recall at the moment.

[sax]

I think this is on topic (and hopefully can clear somethings up)...

 

I'm planning to add 'dumb' RGB to my LOR display this year.  As I've read through a ton of RGB documentation and forums posts, this is what I've come up with in terms of the netowork flow/connections for my first RGB elements (27 channels). 

 

PC (running advanced LOR) --> USB-RS485 dongle --> Enttec ActiDongle --> HC 27 channel DMX controller --> LOR controller (1) --> LOR controller (2)

 

Am I on the right path?... missing something, have too much?

The dmx and LOR protocols must stay seperate.

So you would have the usb 485 dongle coming out of your computer via a USB port then from the 485 to your first LOR controller. From first LOR AC to next LOR AC and so on.

You would then have the entec dongle come out a different USB port on your computer then from the entec go to your first dmx 27 controller. Then from first dmx controller to next dmx controller an so on.

Both protocols typically use cat 5 and both can be daisy chained. Dmx allows you to decide which cables to use. Cat 5 is cheap and readily available so that is why it is used. But, you are actually only using 2 of the 6 wires in that cable. So any 2 conductor wire could be used. Don't reinvent the wheel here...stick with cat 5 if you can.

Dmx also recommends a terminator at the end of the chain which is just a resistor...but I don't use it. I didn't see any difference when I did but my dmx is just rgb lights so it isn't as sensitive.

Holiday Coro has a great video about this terminator if you want more info about it. But basically by terminating the signal becomes more pronounced or clean.

Fyi, e1.31 can come straight out of your computer network port to your e1.31 device. If you only have 1 device then your done. Of course by doing this you are no longer connected to anything but the controller through that port. If you need Internet access then you can use your wireless port still. Or you can use a switch.

If you have more than one then you will need a switch. There are posts about which switch to use but there is a switch at amazon that is $5. It is not the fastest and that is what you need....as the protocol is still slow. As long as you want to just use this switch for your e1.31 network only and not your home network.

Also, a sans devices e682 has a 5v out port to allow you to power a switch so you can put the switch next to your sans card. This will keep the networks seperate and require only 1 cat 5 cable to your controllers.

[jrock_at_rons]

Thanks Sax.  Right after I posted that I found this article on Holiday Coro which explains it much as you have. 

 

http://blog.holidaycoro.com/2013/03/can-light-o-rama-lor-controllers-be.html

 

Having both networks run out of the same pc (different usb ports) was the part I had trouble tracking down. 

[Bassun]

Not trying to dumb it down too much, but the "typical setups" http://www1.lightorama.com/typical-setups/  really shed a lot of light for me on how to potentially build out different solutions.