Pixel Extension cable

[Big Sanch Mafia]

This is prob a dumb question but i wanted to ask so i dont spend un-needed money.

 

I have a few strings of pixels on order from Holidaycoro first pre-sale same as this: http://www.holidaycoro.com/Smart-Pixel-LED-RGB-8mm-12mm-Nodes-p/710-ps.htm

 

it seems to be 3 wire/conductor.. is this correct? How do i know for future reference?

 

so i could pick up a roll of this? http://www.holidaycoro.com/100ft-3-Conductor-18-AWG-Extension-RGB-Lights-p/696-100-ps.htm

 

all in all  $16.99 is horible if i ordered the wrong wire but im more concerned of not shorting out my pixels or having unnneed wire laying around.

 

I appreiacte the feedback.

 

Thanks

[jstorms]

I use 18 AWG for my pixel extenders, however I use 12V, yours are 5V. While you should be fine not shorting out your pixels (assuming you wire them up right),  you need to be aware of voltage drop. With 5V your voltage will drop off quickly. 

[jerrymac]

2811's are 3 conductor. 

There are some limits and workarounds for lengh from controller to first pixel.  

You may want to look into waterproof extensions (david has them in different lengths).

Edited May 17, 2014 by jerrymac

[Big Sanch Mafia]

2811's are 3 conductor. 

There are some limits and workarounds for lengh from controller to first pixel.  

You may want to look into waterproof extensions (david has them in different lengths).

Thanks Jerry,

 

That helps

[Big Sanch Mafia]

I use 18 AWG for my pixel extenders, however I use 12V, yours are 5V. While you should be fine not shorting out your pixels (assuming you wire them up right),  you need to be aware of voltage drop. With 5V your voltage will drop off quickly.

Can you clarify the voltage drop issue? I have been reading around to find out the diff of 12v vs 5v and voltage drop comes up. Even tho I have read that 5v puts is more efficient. What I can't find is, what is the result of voltage drop? Does it mean the pixel string needs more power injection?

Thanks

[Ron Boyd]

I don't know how to explain the technical aspect of this, but, in a nutshell, if you don't have enough power to the pixels the colors will be off and/or flickery, (is that even a word?)

 

The way to test is, hook them up, turn them all white at 100% intensity, and where the color starts dimming or turning a pinkish hue, that's where you need the power injection. 

Edited May 18, 2014 by Ron Boyd

[Jeff Messer]

While I have not try this yet but I did hear the controller does not put out perfect data and some have gained distance by placing a null pixel at the controller first. The pixel sends out perfect data so I will test this at 30 feet with a 12v  2811 soon. In the past I was not able to get 30 feet. I use 18/4 thermostat wiring.

 

There is a difference running it in xlights verses with the sequence editor in LOR.  I have seen xlights using 5v 2811 with power injection at the pixels run data 80 feet on a j1sys card. I would not believed it but saw it at the last mini. 

 

Jeff

[jerrymac]

Sorry not a Guru but if I remember electrical theory correctly, a good way to think of it is like a garden hose.  Voltage is the pressure of the water.  Over distance the resistance of the hose reduces the pressure resulting in the water coming out the other end may or may not have enough pressure to wash the junk off your driveway.

Similarly due to resistance in wire (or any conductor) voltage loses some of its pressure over distance depending on the amount of resistance (small wire, large wire, aluminum, copper etc) and the length of the conductor. 

Without sufficient voltage (pressure) the resulting voltage cannot adequately light up all three of the LEDs' in a RGB pixel.  Most notably the color white since it requires full voltage to all three led’s.  As the voltage is reduced the white color will become reddish and eventually turn yellow and red as the three led’s lose sufficient voltage.

A "1" volt drop in a 5 volt pixel string is a 20 percent loss where a "1" volt drop in a 12 volt string is only .08 percent drop. As such a 12 volt string could allow for longer distances without major noticiable loss than a 5 volt string.

 

Hope this helps (hope I got it right)

Edited May 19, 2014 by jerrymac

[Ron Boyd]

Good job Jerry. That's a bunch more technical than I could have been. That makes it where even I can understand it. You da man.

[Big Sanch Mafia]

Thanks for all the thoughts and breakdown. It makes sense to me for the most part. so it sounds as if 12v is the way to go due to longer runs.

 

with that said, then why do they sale a 5v or why would one buy it over 12v. less power draw?

[jerrymac]

Thanks for all the thoughts and breakdown. It makes sense to me for the most part. so it sounds as if 12v is the way to go due to longer runs.

 

with that said, then why do they sale a 5v or why would one buy it over 12v. less power draw?

5 volt is much more efficient than 12 volt (pixels use just under 5 volts  with all three leds on) and in a 12 volt system that additional voltage has to be dissapated (heat).   This is why 12 volt strips (like CCR's )  or modules tend to have 3 pixels per node (where all three respond the same as if they were one pixel). 

Advantage to 12 volt   reduced voltage drop issues in some cases.

Advantage to 5 volt more efficient (less heat). In the case of strips   up to 3 times the addressable pixels in the same length of strip.

[jstorms]

What does voltage drop look like? See 1:39 in the following. This is with 12v WS2811 pixels. With 5v the problem would be more pronounced.

[Big Sanch Mafia]

5 volt is much more efficient than 12 volt (pixels use just under 5 volts  with all three leds on) and in a 12 volt system that additional voltage has to be dissapated (heat).   This is why 12 volt strips (like CCR's )  or modules tend to have 3 pixels per node (where all three respond the same as if they were one pixel). 

Advantage to 12 volt   reduced voltage drop issues in some cases.

Advantage to 5 volt more efficient (less heat). In the case of strips   up to 3 times the addressable pixels in the same length of strip.

thanks for the simple explanation.. makes sense

[Big Sanch Mafia]

What does voltage drop look like? See 1:39 in the following. This is with 12v WS2811 pixels. With 5v the problem would be more pronounced.

very helpful video..i understand what the voltage drop is and what to look for.

 

so lets say your using a 12v string, are you power injecting with 12v supply?

 

would the same theory apply if you were using a 5v string, you would use 5v supply?

 

I'm curious how the layout of the power injecting would look like if, lets say you ran 3 pixel strings along your roof line. is the power injection installed at the beginning of the string or the mid point or at the point when you notice the voltage drop?

 

sorry for the basic questions, just trying to wrap my head around it all. also Holiday coro has another week on their sale and i want to make sure i can benefit from the sale and also order the right items.

 

Thanks Chad

[Ron Boyd]

Post 6, second paragraph, will give you an idea where to inject power. It's simple really. Where the white starts to dim or flicker, inject at that point. If using strips, inject at either end point.

[Big Sanch Mafia]

Post 6, second paragraph, will give you an idea where to inject power. It's simple really. Where the white starts to dim or flicker, inject at that point. If using strips, inject at either end point.

 

Ron,

 

are we missing a link? your post #6 above

[Ron Boyd]

I drew up a little diagram for how I inject power for pixel strings. https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6a77bvqqx6euqh/Power%20Injection.jpg

 

If you have, for example, a 100 count pixel string of 5v, WS2811 square pixels across your roofline. Before installing them, hook them up to the controller; create a 5 minute sequence for that string, solid on, 100% white. Now, when you run the sequence, where you see the white starting to dim to a pinkish hue or flicker, that’s where you place your power injection. It will usually be around pixel 50 or so as a rule of thumb.

 

Of course, as mentioned already, 12v pixels will go a bit longer than 50. I’ve read as far as 75 pixels before needing power again.

 

In this video, www.vimeo.com/84608204 

this burst has 17 pixels per arm, using the 5v WS2812b strips. I actually had to inject power at 34 pixels, every other arm. My Pixel tree from last year ran 50 WS2811 square pixels per string with no power injection. You can see it in action on my website http://www.boydchristmasinlights.com/2013-videos.html

 

Hope this helps,

Ron

Edited May 22, 2014 by Ron Boyd

[Big Sanch Mafia]

I drew up a little diagram for how I inject power for pixel strings. https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6a77bvqqx6euqh/Power%20Injection.jpg

 

If you have, for example, a 100 count pixel string of 5v, WS2811 square pixels across your roofline. Before installing them, hook them up to the controller; create a 5 minute sequence for that string, solid on, 100% white. Now, when you run the sequence, where you see the white starting to dim to a pinkish hue or flicker, that’s where you place your power injection. It will usually be around pixel 50 or so as a rule of thumb.

 

Of course, as mentioned already, 12v pixels will go a bit longer than 50. I’ve read as far as 75 pixels before needing power again.

 

In this video, www.vimeo.com/84608204 

this burst has 17 pixels per arm, using the 5v WS2812b strips. I actually had to inject power at 34 pixels, every other arm. My Pixel tree from last year ran 50 WS2811 square pixels per string with no power injection. You can see it in action on my website http://www.boydchristmasinlights.com/2013-videos.html

 

Hope this helps,

Ron

Ron,

thank you for the links and the drop box. I love the burst, really cool. dumb question but on your burst are you injecting it with 5v or would 12v work. Not sure if there are resistors that would use the power that is needed. just trying to wrap my head around it.

 

another question on your pixel tree... how many strings did you use? I see you wrote 50 WS2811.. i assume that's one string of 50 pixels per run... were these 5v or 12v? clicking around your links on your site, looks like they are 12v...??

 

last question.. since i have you. Did you use the superstar sequencer for your pixel tree?

 

Thanks for all your help, i really enjoyed your display and watched most of your videos.

[Ron Boyd]

thank you for the links and the drop box. I love the burst, really cool. dumb question but on your burst are you injecting it with 5v or would 12v work. Not sure if there are resistors that would use the power that is needed. just trying to wrap my head around it. The strips are 5v. If you use 12v, you'll need a step-down transformer. Easier to use a 5v PS though. The 12v strip usually is 3 RGB LEDs per pixel like the CCRs. The 5v WS2812b are 1 pixel, 1 chip, so there are 450 addressable Pixels assuming 30 per meter

 

another question on your pixel tree... how many strings did you use? I see you wrote 50 WS2811.. i assume that's one string of 50 pixels per run... were these 5v or 12v? clicking around your links on your site, looks like they are 12v...?? 5V WS2811 square pixels, 50 per leg and 16 legs, even the dumb nodes in the star are 5v. The remaining dumb nodes in last year's display were 12v

 

last question.. since i have you. Did you use the superstar sequencer for your pixel tree? I use Superstar for everything, including the LED Mega tree on the right. I do use a bit of Nutcracker for spirals and such on the tree. I use Nutcracker sparingly where I cannot get an effect I want from Superstar. I use the SE for nothing but running the show.

[Big Sanch Mafia]

 

another question on your pixel tree... how many strings did you use? I see you wrote 50 WS2811.. i assume that's one string of 50 pixels per run... were these 5v or 12v? clicking around your links on your site, looks like they are 12v...?? 5V WS2811 square pixels, 50 per leg and 16 legs, even the dumb nodes in the star are 5v. The remaining dumb nodes in last year's display were 12v

 

 

Its hard to tell by the picrure but with you 16 legs, did you go all the way around or what it looks like is about 3/4 of the way?

 

Thanks for all your help. I have been usuing the SE as my lights are 95% LED... but as you can tell, im looking to add pixels. I think it might benifet me to purchase Superstar.

 

Thanks Chad