rainyoregonchristmas Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 For my Rainy Trees I have designed a slip on plastic clip to hold CCP's on the tree. I've had some prototypes printed up and they work great. I like how they work better than zip ties, however I have some issues. The main issue is the production costs. I know many folks have had custom light clips made to fit their needs and the needs of others. But how do they manage the extreme start up costs. For an in country build the cost of the mold alone is $5,000. At that rate, if I added $0.05 to each clip over production cost it would take me 100,000 clips just to break even. I haven't looked yet at an out-of-country build yet. Anyone have suggestions or ideas? -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LORisAwesome Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 How about a 3-D printer? They are now available on Amazon.com. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gc75067 Posted July 15, 2013 Share Posted July 15, 2013 For my Rainy Trees I have designed a slip on plastic clip to hold CCP's on the tree. I've had some prototypes printed up and they work great. I like how they work better than zip ties, however I have some issues. The main issue is the production costs. I know many folks have had custom light clips made to fit their needs and the needs of others. But how do they manage the extreme start up costs. For an in country build the cost of the mold alone is $5,000. At that rate, if I added $0.05 to each clip over production cost it would take me 100,000 clips just to break even. I haven't looked yet at an out-of-country build yet. Anyone have suggestions or ideas? -Mattlook at it this way - if you sell them in a package of 1000 for $50 you would only need to sell to 100 people. anything more than 100 people is profit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted July 15, 2013 Author Share Posted July 15, 2013 yea, but I'd have to add the manufacturing cost of .12 in too... so 1000 clips would be $170.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
columbus27 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 We have a company here in Ohio that helps people walk through their ideas to production. http://columbusideafoundry.com/ Or you can put a RFQ on Alibaba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcPierre Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 If you still have questions or looking for a company to help you through the process you can check these guys out...Injection molding companies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 3D printers are very expensive for any quantity.. that won't fly. Depends on how many you think you will need, you can actually find someone that uses aluminum molds. They are lower cost to produce but they don't last as long. Off shore is still the way to go. With the wages demanded here it is very hard to compete for small parts like that in relatively small quantities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a31ford Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Rainy.... Here's the thing, 10,000 ? That is a drop in the bucket for places like HD or Lowes, heck, I bet HD would order 200,000 by themselves. BUT I see your problem, your clips are for YOUR trees, that you make, correct ? There in lies your problem, ya gota sell HD the trees to go along with the clips......................................... If ya go big, ya gota go whole hearted. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 I've made a great deal of progress since I first posted this topic. I actually have a request out for a company to to build the mold and run a batch of 250,000 clips. This project will be done via a Kickstarter project. I've had a request for a total of about 50,000 clips so far, so getting the project to fund shouldn't be too hard. The plan is that these clips can be used for a number of things other than just my Rainy Trees. I have since designed several other products that would use the clip. The mounting substrates that the features on the clip will accommodate is poly banding, 550 paracord, and 1/4 x 1/2" aluminum bar stock. My products that will use the clips include: The Rainy Treehttps://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=B391FEB1972280F0!154&authkey=!AIe16n2_4FuLApc&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.JPG The Rainy Banding Treehttps://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=B391FEB1972280F0!202&authkey=!ABYofw6hvT_SBjg&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg The Tech Tree Topperhttps://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=B391FEB1972280F0!230&authkey=!AOGQF6mh8Grei6E&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpghttps://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=B391FEB1972280F0!193&authkey=!AOb-XILGBFHCNIQ&v=3&ithint=photo%2c.jpg I am making progress, but am still waiting on the shops to come back with a bids. So I am in the final stages of the project. I expected to hear back this week from the plastic shop, but no news yet. I am also going into full scale production of my tree designs. I spoke to the machine shop I am having build the metal components to the trees this morning and they promised that their quote would be available to me early next week. Once I have that I will have a presale for the trees, and the clips will follow as soon as I get the plastic clip quote back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLewinski Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 You should take a look at ProtoMold and/or QuickParts. Both can be found online, and can do the smaller production runs that you're looking for. Companies that I've worked for previously used them for special items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 Rainy.... Here's the thing, 10,000 ? That is a drop in the bucket for places like HD or Lowes, heck, I bet HD would order 200,000 by themselves. BUT I see your problem, your clips are for YOUR trees, that you make, correct ? There in lies your problem, ya gota sell HD the trees to go along with the clips......................................... If ya go big, ya gota go whole hearted. GregThe clips are not just for my products, I tried to make them so they would incorporate multiple substrates so they can be used by anyone. I just wanted to help out our hobby. Really a lot of inspiration of pursuing this project intensely came from watching my father try to build a Monkhouse styled mega tree. He has arthritic hands and it pained me to watch him tighten the zip ties, and wrap the pixels with electrical tape and stop every few pixels to rub his hands. In addition to that I also met a gentleman last year in our hobby who severely injured his wrist from building his 3000+ pixel mega tree. It is because of reasons like this that I created this pixel clip. The only apprehension I have about this project is whether or not it will universally fit all bullet styled pixels. I know each manufacturer is just slightly different in design, which makes things tough. But the design is also suppose to be a tight fit on the pixels to hold them securely. My idea is that once you put the clip on the substrate and insert the pixel, you won't have to remove it and it won't fall out easily if bumped. You should be able to coil up banding straps with the clips attached and not have the pixels come loose. So I'm ready we'll see how it all goes, as I've never undertaken a project like this in my life. It is quite a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobschm Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I just looked at your clip photo and notice they are all the same profile and thickness. Instead of molding each clip, have you thought about extruding a bar with the profile and cutting off clips. Sort of like making pasta. It may be a cheaper way to produce quantities of clips like yours. The only downside to this approach is that if clips are cut off while the bar is warm, there may be deformation. If the material is soft enough when cool, they would still be usable. And that would also solve your problem of fit with different pixels. The clips could stretch a bit to accommodate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a31ford Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 There you Go Rainy... Bob is the "Wonder boy" ! BOTH are GREAT solutions ! Greg I just looked at your clip photo and notice they are all the same profile and thickness. Instead of molding each clip, have you thought about extruding a bar with the profile and cutting off clips. Sort of like making pasta. It may be a cheaper way to produce quantities of clips like yours. The only downside to this approach is that if clips are cut off while the bar is warm, there may be deformation. If the material is soft enough when cool, they would still be usable. And that would also solve your problem of fit with different pixels. The clips could stretch a bit to accommodate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 The plan last year was to extrude them. The cost of an extrusion die is only about $3,000. BUT, I had three separate shops decline to produce the clip. The banding feature has a pretty tight tolerance, and I believe that was causing some of the issues. Their engineers all said no. So because of that the clip did not go through last year. This year I went with the plan of injection molding because it provides consistency and allows for higher precision. Unfortunately it seems to be a hurry up and wait process. I'm ready, but the shop is not. If they wait too much longer I may be finding another shop. I'll keep updating as I get news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caniac Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 thanks, I am looking at getting started on this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad02 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 One of the problems we had this year was the banding twisting and the pixels facing in different directions. What if you manufactured a flat clip with a 3" interlocking extension that could be pieced together eliminating the strap. Something similar in shape to a lollipop. Just throwing it out there...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmadrive Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Hey Rainy, Did you try that email address I sent you for Sam Leu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Plasmadrive, yes I got it. Talked to my local shop yesterday, they're getting me the quote later today (Wednesday). The mold I'm looking at should last millions of clips, but I might need a prototype mold good for a few hundred clips. I'll keep him in my file. I'll know more in the next few days what else I will need for this project. -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobschm Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hope you don't mind my throwing out ideas...Have you thought about a different band? Thicker band might solve the tolerance issue with extrusions. And it might eliminate the twisting issue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainyoregonchristmas Posted January 25, 2014 Author Share Posted January 25, 2014 I've looked for thicker banding but it's a lot harder to bend, which is good and bad. But I found it hard to work with. I had a industrial supplier working for me to locate strapping at a reasonable cost. I also wanted it black, instead of the sea foam green of railway grade. So, cheap, black and easy to work with was what lead me to the .025" by 5/8" 900 lb test poly banding... that was of course black. So that's why I went with the .025" measurement. I received the quote today from the injection mold shop. I've crunched the numbers and am ready to proceed. I'll be updating in the vendor marketplace from here on out to keep everything in one convenient location. -Rainyoregonchristmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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