New Member Halloween spot/flood Bulb Question,CFL= no good?

[Beaver State Rich]

Hi all from Corvallis Oregon. New member and new LOR user this year.  I attempted to search for this answer but didn't find anything on target newer than 2010.  Bear with my long post as I'm going to provide some background and details regarding my display to understand my needs/question.

 

I am a haunter and am graduating from static light display this year to a full on "show" of which LOR is key.  My goals for the LOR system are to run "shows" on the weekend prior to Halloween and of course the night of.  The 2nd goal is to simply turn my static non-flashing yard display on and off at a set time so I don't forget to turn lights off before bed. My yard display goes up first weekend in Oct and is lit up every night.  Except for the few nights mentioned above I don't want to annoy the neighbors too much with excess flash.  A little can go a long way and I want to keep something "special" in reserve for the big night.

 

I will be using 32 channels and have already edited the video/audio and LOR sequences.  Everything is comming together nicely.   My "show" is  7:10 running every 15 min for 3 nights. It will be standard flashing lights in sync to projected video/music from approx 5:30 pm to 10pm. 

 

Each channel will be running one (1) bulb except for one string of eyeball lights in a bush.  During the "show" 4 channels will be running fake fire (box fans blowing silk and lit with red/yellow light from below). The show will also include fake cannon fire (4 channels), and custom video.

 

Power available: Display is on 2 dedicated circuits I installed 2 years ago each with a 20 amp breaker and exterior GFCI. I ran these when I installed a 30 amp line for my RV to plug into.

 

My problem/quesiton is that I just read on this forum my physical lights may not work with LOR.

 

After years of experiements I now use homemade cans to light up the scene with colored compact "twisty" fluorescent (CFL) bulbs.  My "cans" are stake lights with black plastic flower pots to focus light on stones and display figures.  So far the CFL bulbs and $6 cans have been fantastic.   They have great color, low power consumpsion at 15w each and allowed my display to expand with ease.  Big box store has rainbow of colors for ~$5 each bulb.  Before going to the CFL I was using colored 100w floods which was way too much of a power draw/heat (scorched lawn!) and didn't look nearly as good.  Other lights in my display are "flicker" candle lights in the grave diggers lantern and candles on the casket.  I use one tube fluorescent in my FCG mausolem.  (See pics below)

 

From what I have been reading here it appears CFL bulbs don't work because they create too much noise?  Before I dropped $600 on the LOR kit I took a CFL and in a power strip turned it on an off quickly-it seemed to work but now, I'm not so sure this is going to hold true.  So, am I hosed with no option besides buying 28 LED bulbs at $50 bucks a pop? Or, for my purpose is CFL okay and I'm worring about nothing? Or, is there another option I don't know about. 

 

THANKS for all help!

 

Rich Bryan-AKA Beaver State Rich

 

Pictures of yard to give an idea:

[caniac]

I have always heard that CFL is a no go because it takes time to come on and the constant on/off shortens the life of the bulb, I am sure the electricians/engineers of the bunch will chime in with other issues.  you may not have to go the $50 route on LED's if you go to Spirit Halloween web site and check out what they have, small led floods start at $12 (I have used them and they work out quiet well).  I have also purchased LED Par38's from WoWLights for $29.  You have options.

[Orville]

You could go back to the 100 watt standard floods and use them at 50-75% intensity.   As for the flicker bulbs, you can use them but only with full on/off commands in the LOR SE.   Or if the prop just uses only a bulb {non-animated prop} replace it with a standard opague orange or amber C7 bulb, then use the shimmer option in the SE at varying intensities, from full off to full on with a varying percentage of intensities in between.   That's how I light my funkin type Jack O' Lanterns and it works very well.

 

And if you use standard floods, you can run them at 100% intensity if you're only having them on for short durations within the sequence.

 

So yes, you do have options.

 

EDIT: BTW, very nice display!

 

See attached animation file for how I achieve a Candle Flame Flicker effect with C7 bulbs. 

 

Just change the Controller ID and Channel # to match your controller in the LOR SE, attach a C7 bulb to your controller and run the animation to see how it works,

Edited July 3, 2013 by Orville

[Beaver State Rich]

Thanks for the info guys. 

 

The flicker track is fantastic, thanks for sharing.   My "candles" will only be on/off but you have given me an idea for other flames in the yard-the orange ligts on my columns especially.  Also, you may have saved me $ as those flicker bulbs blow if you look at them sidways, I have to repace them at least 2x during the month.

 

Question about the 50-75% intensity of floods, I get I won't be pulling as much juice but isn't there still some sort of limit in play with this-don't I still draw amps?  Would keeping the lights on at a constant 50% setting harm the LOR? It seems like dimmers in my house don't like it when they are left on under heavy load. I just want to make sure I'm not going to overheat my cords and/or harm my new toy.

 

2 Anyone know of a source for lower watt colored lamps? It seems that you have small christmas light bulbs, CFLs or 100 heat lamps. I have yet to see anyting in the 60w range that is colored other than yellow bug lights.

 

Prior to going with the CFL option a couple of years ago I was looking at using 60w bulbs in my flowerpot cans with a theater gel.  Anyone use gels outside? I have no experience with these and wonder about the quality of the light I would get. It would be an inexpensive option.

[Beaver State Rich]

One other question!  I called local theater supply and they were talking about MR 16 bulbs.  These are 12v reflector bulbs but it sounds like they can get the transformer to convert from 120 to 12v for about $4 a piece and then the colored bulbs are ~$4-5.  MR 16's are reflector bulbs that at 20w or 50w are supposed to put out a ton of power and light as it all goes forward.  Anyone use something like this?  Any issues with transformers causing feedback to the LOR system?

 

Sorry for all the posts but I'm just trying to figure out the best solution from the start. Who knew I would have to put this much time and effort into a lightbulb!!!

[caniac]

One other question!  I called local theater supply and they were talking about MR 16 bulbs.  These are 12v reflector bulbs but it sounds like they can get the transformer to convert from 120 to 12v for about $4 a piece and then the colored bulbs are ~$4-5.  MR 16's are reflector bulbs that at 20w or 50w are supposed to put out a ton of power and light as it all goes forward.  Anyone use something like this?  Any issues with transformers causing feedback to the LOR system?

 

Sorry for all the posts but I'm just trying to figure out the best solution from the start. Who knew I would have to put this much time and effort into a lightbulb!!!

not an expert on the topic but based on your pics I would think those would be overkill.  Most of us here usually go looking for the LED equivalent light for what we are doing so that the response times are great but the power companies don't get rich in the process.  the most interesting thing I have seen here was someone finding LED stop lights (from an LED traffic signal) and retrofitting them for their display.  They wanted the brightest they could find without going incandescent.

[Beaver State Rich]

Again, thanks for the tips!  The MR 16 bulbs are what are used in a small el-cheepo projector I got a couple of years ago for a simple effect.  They put out a lot of focused light but also get VERY hot for only 12v. I was doing further reading on them last night and it looks like for outdoor use you need to put a glass lens on the front to keep water off of them or they will blow if hot and suddenly wet. Heck, I may just throw another breaker into the panel and run a 3rd circuit to the exterior.  But as noted I don't want to enrich the power company either.   I thought I had this entire thing figured out and the simple bulb is causing me havioc!

[caniac]

Again, thanks for the tips!  The MR 16 bulbs are what are used in a small el-cheepo projector I got a couple of years ago for a simple effect.  They put out a lot of focused light but also get VERY hot for only 12v. I was doing further reading on them last night and it looks like for outdoor use you need to put a glass lens on the front to keep water off of them or they will blow if hot and suddenly wet. Heck, I may just throw another breaker into the panel and run a 3rd circuit to the exterior.  But as noted I don't want to enrich the power company either.   I thought I had this entire thing figured out and the simple bulb is causing me havioc!

if focused is what you want I picked up an LED spotlight (tight focused beam) from spirit halloween.  or this might work

http://www.zzounds.com/item--ADJPINSPOTLED

[Orville]

I also used an MR16 projector 120v -> 12V MR16 bulb and yes, they do get hot if left on for long durations.   I actually switched mine on and off quickly in many of my sequences, kept the bulb cool and never had an issue with LOR Controller or channel it was connected too.     I also used the shimmer and fade up/fade down effects on it with no detrimental effects to the controller or channel.

 

But as one other said, the bulb MUST be kept in some type of weatherproof enclosure, because even with the fast off/on's I may use, if they get wet, they will not only blow, they will literally explode into glass shards.   Also DO NOT USE the Black-light/Ultra-Violet spotlights from Spirit Halloween unless they ARE ENCLOSED in a weatherproof enclosure.  

 

  Found this out the hard way 2 years ago when I tried to use these supposed "outdoor" black-light floods. 

 

It started misting rain and all 3 I had in outdoor flood lamp sockets {bulb exposed to all elements} ended up exploding and I ended up unplugging the flood lamp holders and picking up thousands of pieces of purple glass from all around my tombstones, and embedded in my tombstones when the 3 black-light floods literally exploded, and then had to use a potato or pliers to get the flood-lamp bases out of the flood-lamp sockets.    All because they burned very hot in a short amount of time.   So now if I were to use them again, I'd have to find some way to weatherize them from the elements, just to prevent that from ever happening again.

 

So even if a bulb says for outdoor use, it may not really be weatherized for true outdoor use in a fixture that doesn't enclose the bulb.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Orville

[Orville]

Oh, you can still use your CFL Bulbs, just have to use full on/off commands, no special effects like fades, shimmer or twinkle.   So if you're just turning them on and off, they will work fine with a LOR CTB16PC Controller.   I have used them in some things, but usually are always on through the entire sequence and then off at the end, especially if I'm not lighting that area or prop that used a CFL bulb in it.      But if you want to dim, fade, shimmer or twinkle, an L.E.D. spot/floodlight or incandescent spot/floodlight would be your best options.

[caniac]

I also used an MR16 projector 120v -> 12V MR16 bulb and yes, they do get hot if left on for long durations.   I actually switched mine on and off quickly in many of my sequences, kept the bulb cool and never had an issue with LOR Controller or channel it was connected too.     I also used the shimmer and fade up/fade down effects on it with no detrimental effects to the controller or channel.

 

But as one other said, the bulb MUST be kept in some type of weatherproof enclosure, because even with the fast off/on's I may use, if they get wet, they will not only blow, they will literally explode into glass shards.   Also DO NOT USE the Black-light/Ultra-Violet spotlights from Spirit Halloween unless they ARE ENCLOSED in a weatherproof enclosure.  

 

  Found this out the hard way 2 years ago when I tried to use these supposed "outdoor" black-light floods. 

 

It started misting rain and all 3 I had in outdoor flood lamp sockets {bulb exposed to all elements} ended up exploding and I ended up unplugging the flood lamp holders and picking up thousands of pieces of purple glass from all around my tombstones, and embedded in my tombstones when the 3 black-light floods literally exploded, and then had to use a potato or pliers to get the flood-lamp bases out of the flood-lamp sockets.    All because they burned very hot in a short amount of time.   So now if I were to use them again, I'd have to find some way to weatherize them from the elements, just to prevent that from ever happening again.

 

So even if a bulb says for outdoor use, it may not really be weatherized for true outdoor use in a fixture that doesn't enclose the bulb.

I used the blacklight LED floods from Spirit Halloween last year with NO issues and they worked great!!

[Orville]

I used the blacklight LED floods from Spirit Halloween last year with NO issues and they worked great!!

I guess you were lucky.  All 3 I used literally exploded into glass shards everywhere.  I WILL NOT use them again.  But that was MY experience with them and therefore is why I won't buy or use them UNLESS I have a sealed enclosure away from any wet/damp weather to use them in, even then, not too sure I'd trust them again after my experience.

[caniac]

I guess you were lucky.  All 3 I used literally exploded into glass shards everywhere.  I WILL NOT use them again.  But that was MY experience with them and therefore is why I won't buy or use them UNLESS I have a sealed enclosure away from any wet/damp weather to use them in, even then, not too sure I'd trust them again after my experience.

were they the LED's or ican's?  Had bought a couple of the ican's and they put off so much heat I figured there would be issues the first time they got wet.  used a dozen of the led's with NO issues last year.

[Orville]

were they the LED's or ican's?  Had bought a couple of the ican's and they put off so much heat I figured there would be issues the first time they got wet.  used a dozen of the led's with NO issues last year.

These were the glass incandescent flood lamp bulbs.  Just as soon as a little water {mist} hit them, they literally exploded!

 

And they created a real mess all over my graveyard scene.  I was using them to light up the tombstones I had painted with Florescent {Glow in the Dark} paint.   They worked great for 3 days, then on the 4th day got a very light misty rain and I was in the garage working on something and I heard something like glass breaking, looked at the window and watched the next two bulbs literally explode all over the graveyard and into the tombstones.    It was a real mess picking up all the pieces of glass of all shapes and sizes out of the Styrofoam tombstones and the yard.

 

If these would have been L.E,D,, I seriously doubt this would have happened, but then again, I've seen and felt some pretty hot L.E.D.'s from time to time too.  Just not as common as it is with an incandescent though.

[Beaver State Rich]

OK, so I have made some progress. 

 

1.  As noted above I can still use many of the CFL bulbs I have as many of the effects will be simple on/off.  Cannon shots for example will be on for 2.5 seconds and then off. Cool. This was an issue as my cannons were designed around the CFL  and needed a smaller diameter bulb. 

 

2.  I was at H. Depot and found 53w reflector flood bulbs that put out 920 lumens a piece.  They were on clearance for $8 a pair so I got 40 of them at $4 each.  (Considering my can lights in the house use the same bulb I couldn't pass up this deal if they don't work for the display) While these are not 15w they do put out a lot of light per watt and are loads better than the 100w floods.  I am going to modify my cans to have metal housings and get colored gels from a theater supply company.  I figure the extra lumens (920 vs the 800 for CFL) will be eaten up with the colored gel.  So, if my math is correct 32 lights (not all will be 53 W) should not overwhelm my system if each bulb will pull approx .5 amps spread between 2 circuits.

 

Anyone see a flaw in this plan?

 

Thanks for all of your input so far!