Spacing Spiral Tree Question

[Jeff Messer]

I have some questions on installing the mega tree and I know members on here will have the answers.

I am installing a 16 channel spiral over my mega tree. The tree is 26 feet tall and 96 feet in circumference. My lights at the top will be an inch apart at the top and 72 inches at the bottom. I have the spiral tree calculator and just dont understand how it works. I wanted to find someone who can call me or me call them to make sure I get this installed right the first time. LOL.. I am installing lights on the house today and will not be back on the computer till later tonight. Thanks in advance for any help provided on the forum. Just PM me your number and I will call.

Jeff

[ainsworth]

You didn't say how many revolutions you wanted to use. If you only want 1 then the calculations says 56.7 foot string length, for 2 revolutions it yields 100.66 feet. I assume you wanted to know string length.

[Jeff Messer]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry that I left off some important information. I will be doing two turns on the spiral. Hardest part for me to work out is the distance between each channel when I start from 1 inch at the top and as I come down the tree how would i space the lines. I feel its going to be a hit and miss and redo till we get it right. Thanks again for the reply..

[Shan-Man]

The best method I have heard is to pre-attach all the strings before the head is lifted, be it a JUMP or a shuttle head. Then, pull all the spiral strings back, temporarily attaching to the guys for instance, and fix your megas in place. Then, one by one, release a spiral string and walk it around the tree under the others and laying it on top of the mega strings. Play with it a bit until you have a pleasing spiral. Then release the next string and follow the line on the first, keeping in mind to gradually flare so that you meet your designed spacing at the bottom. Continue all the way around. Tack in a few places with zip-ties and you're done.

[MCas4380]

Shan-man Thanks you might of saved me some headache this weekend with that advice.

[Jeff Messer]

Thanks for the information.. Next weekend I will be installing both mega and spiral so I hope all goes well. Thanks agin for the info.

[rjnitto]

Hi Jeff,

As you know, I have two spiral trees, each only 10' high and 6' diameter. The one piece of info you didn't give is the number of vertical support lines, in your case the number of megatree lights going straight up and down. For example, if you had 16 vertical lines, the vertical spacing between the spiral strings would be about 11 1/4" at each vertical line. If you have 32 vertical lines, the spacing would be just over 5 1/2".

I worked on one of the spiral tree calculators with Chris so I understand it fairly well, and you won't need to use it more than once, once your calculations are completed. I dragged it out tonight just to run some calcs for you. Remember, the calculator assumes everything is perfect. It does not take into consideration that the vertical strings sag, especially with the weight of spiral strings on top of them. It also does not take into account the diameter of the top circle where your lights are connected. But it is great for giving you a general idea of the measurements you will need.

Ainsworth is right, a 100' string will get you about 2 turns. This leaves all your plug ends at the base ring and will mean 16 extension cords 15 ' long assuming your controller is at the center.

Personally, I would wrap one spiral string completely. Then with the next spiral string you can sort of follow the first string putting about 11-12" vertical distance between the two (again assuming 16 vertical support strings). Are you using a bucket truck or do you have a pulley system to raise the lights? Make sure you plan plenty of time and helpers; it is fairly intensive work to get the spacing even.

On my 10 footer, I used 16 vinyl coated wire cables for my support lines, and premarked them with a Sharpie every 4". Then when I wrapped the spiral strings, I placed them at the black marks and zip-tied the string at every mark. Started at the top hook (of course), went to the next support line and down 4", over to the next support line and down to the next mark and so forth. It might be overkill, but the strings don't shift or slide much, even in high winds.

Knowing how grandiose your displays are, you probably will have 96 (or more) vertical strings. If that is the case, just select say 8 or 16 or 32 of them and measure your spacing only at those equidistant vertical strings. You have my cell number; call if you want to discuss further or you want to give more info.

Richard

[ainsworth]

If I understand your question "as I come down the tree how would i space the lines" you are asking about the verticle height of attachment points of the spiral; for example the 1st 1/4 revolution would be attached 11" from the top of the tree. Now you are asking about personal preference I'm afraid. My tree is different than most; it is a "pyramid" not a cone. So I have 4 attachment points for the spiral strings. The first year I took the length of the side of the pyramid and divided it by 7 which gave equal verticle spacing. It looked good, but it wasn't the look I wanted. I wanted the spiral to look fatter at the bottom, and taller at the top. Hope that makes sense. So the second year I adjusted the attachment points so that I got that effect.

As a starting point, measure the length of your mega tree strings (assuming those will be your attachment points for the spiral strings) divide that length by 7.

[Surfing4Dough]

Here is how I did my 16 ch spiral overlay:

Label all strings' male plugs with a sharpie with their ch #, and likewise mark their finish point on your bottom ring of the tree (see pie picture below). If using 16 channels, start with channel 1 and get it to spiral just how you want it. I do a full 2 rotations. So starting spot at the top should line up with the finishing spot at the bottom. Once you have it how you want it, then move on to the string on the opposite side (so channel 9). Have both of these strings lit up to see them better. As wrapping channel 9, look "through" the tree to the opposite side. The channel 9 string should reach the same points as the ch1 string does BUT 180 degrees away. For example, if the ch1 string is at the very front point of the tree at 8 feet high, then ch9 should be at the very back point of the tree at 8 feet high (though they will be sloping opposite directions--from a distance they should look criss-crossed like a X). I just eyeballed it. Once you have the first 2 strings done, it is even easier from there. For the next lines, you want to go in this order 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc. Look at the pie slices picture below, and go to each of these numbers and you will start to see the pattern. Basically, you keep dividing the "pie" into new equal sections (1 & 9 cuts it in half, then 5 & 13 results in quarters, etc.). So following this pattern ch5 is next--on the pie it is half way between 1 & 9. Therefore leave 1 & 9 lit on the tree, and spiral ch5 down the tree remaining half way between 1 & 9 the whole way down. Ch 13 will be the same thing, but starting on the opposite side of the tree. Next is Ch3, which is half way between 1 & 5, then 11 is half way between 9 & 13. I would only keep 3 strings lit at a time--the one 1 was wrapping and the two that it was half way in between. Made it very easy. After you do a few, you quickly start seeing the pattern, and won't need to reference these instructions --maybe print out the channel order though to save on having to "think" (ie: 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc). After you wrap each string, step far away from the tree and adjust the newly placed string as needed. It goes fairly quick, and the finished effect is incredible.

http://www.vimeo.com/34070369

Here is a video showing split-screen of sequence and video (spiral is faint in the video):

Used this calculator for determining length, spacing, etc.(may be the same as above--didn't check):

http://www.lightsons...eadsheet-97.xls

Edited October 27, 2012 by Surfing4Dough

[CK57]

When you think you have your spacing down at the bottom of your tree you will need to have a means to keep the all the wraps in position.

Having done this a couple of years now I use found the quickest repeatable process is to place tie wraps on 1/2" PVC tubing at different levels.

When you wrap your tree the strands will rest on the tie wraps. This is a no friction stop and works well. See attached photo.

[SteveMaris]

Here is how I did my 16 ch spiral overlay:

Label all strings' male plugs with a sharpie with their ch #, and likewise mark their finish point on your bottom ring of the tree (see pie picture below). If using 16 channels, start with channel 1 and get it to spiral just how you want it. I do a full 2 rotations. So starting spot at the top should line up with the finishing spot at the bottom. Once you have it how you want it, then move on to the string on the opposite side (so channel 9). Have both of these strings lit up to see them better. As wrapping channel 9, look "through" the tree to the opposite side. The channel 9 string should reach the same points as the ch1 string does BUT 180 degrees away. For example, if the ch1 string is at the very front point of the tree at 8 feet high, then ch9 should be at the very back point of the tree at 8 feet high (though they will be sloping opposite directions--from a distance they should look criss-crossed like a X). I just eyeballed it. Once you have the first 2 strings done, it is even easier from there. For the next lines, you want to go in this order 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc. Look at the pie slices picture below, and go to each of these numbers and you will start to see the pattern. Basically, you keep dividing the "pie" into new equal sections (1 & 9 cuts it in half, then 5 & 13 results in quarters, etc.). So following this pattern ch5 is next--on the pie it is half way between 1 & 9. Therefore leave 1 & 9 lit on the tree, and spiral ch5 down the tree remaining half way between 1 & 9 the whole way down. Ch 13 will be the same thing, but starting on the opposite side of the tree. Next is Ch3, which is half way between 1 & 5, then 11 is half way between 9 & 13. I would only keep 3 strings lit at a time--the one 1 was wrapping and the two that it was half way in between. Made it very easy. After you do a few, you quickly start seeing the pattern, and won't need to reference these instructions --maybe print out the channel order though to save on having to "think" (ie: 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc). After you wrap each string, step far away from the tree and adjust the newly placed string as needed. It goes fairly quick, and the finished effect is incredible.

http://www.vimeo.com/34070369

Here is a video showing split-screen of sequence and video (spiral is faint in the video):

Used this calculator for determining length, spacing, etc.(may be the same as above--didn't check):

http://www.lightsons...eadsheet-97.xls

Great tip, thank you.

[s8830906]

Here is how I did my 16 ch spiral overlay:

Label all strings' male plugs with a sharpie with their ch #, and likewise mark their finish point on your bottom ring of the tree (see pie picture below). If using 16 channels, start with channel 1 and get it to spiral just how you want it. I do a full 2 rotations. So starting spot at the top should line up with the finishing spot at the bottom. Once you have it how you want it, then move on to the string on the opposite side (so channel 9). Have both of these strings lit up to see them better. As wrapping channel 9, look "through" the tree to the opposite side. The channel 9 string should reach the same points as the ch1 string does BUT 180 degrees away. For example, if the ch1 string is at the very front point of the tree at 8 feet high, then ch9 should be at the very back point of the tree at 8 feet high (though they will be sloping opposite directions--from a distance they should look criss-crossed like a X). I just eyeballed it. Once you have the first 2 strings done, it is even easier from there. For the next lines, you want to go in this order 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc. Look at the pie slices picture below, and go to each of these numbers and you will start to see the pattern. Basically, you keep dividing the "pie" into new equal sections (1 & 9 cuts it in half, then 5 & 13 results in quarters, etc.). So following this pattern ch5 is next--on the pie it is half way between 1 & 9. Therefore leave 1 & 9 lit on the tree, and spiral ch5 down the tree remaining half way between 1 & 9 the whole way down. Ch 13 will be the same thing, but starting on the opposite side of the tree. Next is Ch3, which is half way between 1 & 5, then 11 is half way between 9 & 13. I would only keep 3 strings lit at a time--the one 1 was wrapping and the two that it was half way in between. Made it very easy. After you do a few, you quickly start seeing the pattern, and won't need to reference these instructions --maybe print out the channel order though to save on having to "think" (ie: 1,9,5,13,3,11,7,15,etc). After you wrap each string, step far away from the tree and adjust the newly placed string as needed. It goes fairly quick, and the finished effect is incredible.

http://www.vimeo.com/34070369

Here is a video showing split-screen of sequence and video (spiral is faint in the video):

Used this calculator for determining length, spacing, etc.(may be the same as above--didn't check):

http://www.lightsons...eadsheet-97.xls

WoW!! Nice sequencing and great video showing the breakdown. Any chance you are willing to share a few of those sequences? This will be my first year with a spiral, if I can get it all done, and would love some great examples like yours to learn from.

email is s8830906@msn.com

Thanks,

Steve

[s8830906]

When you think you have your spacing down at the bottom of your tree you will need to have a means to keep the all the wraps in position.

Having done this a couple of years now I use found the quickest repeatable process is to place tie wraps on 1/2" PVC tubing at different levels.

When you wrap your tree the strands will rest on the tie wraps. This is a no friction stop and works well. See attached photo.

Wow! That is a nice tree! Any videos of it?

[s8830906]

When you think you have your spacing down at the bottom of your tree you will need to have a means to keep the all the wraps in position.

Having done this a couple of years now I use found the quickest repeatable process is to place tie wraps on 1/2" PVC tubing at different levels.

When you wrap your tree the strands will rest on the tie wraps. This is a no friction stop and works well. See attached photo.

Just watched your videos and all I can say is wow! Love all your items and how you laid them out.