Mobile Show on wheels.

[Gonkulor]

Hello LORites

This is my first post. Please go easy but I have thick skin and will take criticism if warranted. I have been reading and googling and reading. Rinse-repeat multiple times and I still am confused about my needed hardware, specifically power supply. I am very appreciative I was directed to your forum by a member from another forum. Finding your FAQ was a needed shot in the arm.

I recently added a carputer to my 36volt DC 1993 EZGO Golf Cart. My carputer has an on-board ATX 80 watt PSU which has enough extra umph for USB control but no more. I read the post on a train and someone who used a UTV to pull a float. I think I'm going in circles here. I do tend to reinvent the wheel and over think things. Here is what I want. Approx 45"+ RGB LED Strip lights. LED headlights, parking, brakes and blinkers. Small area individual lights and whatever else tickles my fancy with the limits of what I buy to control and drive the system. I want to put a 4th of July show sequenced to the national anthem and have the cart appear to have fireworks going off underneath and around the cart. I am absolutely not afraid of wiring with my aircraft maintenance and avionics background. 500 24-? gauge wires is nothing.

I see 120V systems and they seem to be heavier. The AC voltage systems do use lower current, basing this on my knowledge of Ohm's and Joule's law. But when I get down to lighter individual components I find they can run off 12v DC. AC inverters are rather inefficient which makes me want to stick with DC power.

I have read of success directly connecting the power straight to the battery but that is unwise in my book. I must have voltage regulation for consistency. This is where my troubles start. I think I have somewhat solved the power issue if this will work. A DIO32 Motherboard and a CMB-16D-QC controller? The CMB is the daughter board correct? Both of these items in chain will provide me with enough sequencing channels from what I'm reading.

Because I have solely a DC power source with no auto style charging, I'll charge nightly when parked. I can use a DC-DC converter for my 36v battery pack or tap off individual batteries. [it's worth noting I already have an extra 12v battery for the carputer and will most likely add 2 more 12v auto batteries for an additional 36v pack]. I read that the CMB will only power the board if voltage drops below 12v and that makes me want to use the 36v pack but now I lost the 12v unless I tap individual batteries. Do I use the converter? If I use the converter I am limited to the output amp/wattage provided by the converter. Am I missing something? Should I get 2 converters? Or is this just the nature of the beast I'm trying to tame?

Any help would be so much appreciated.
The website of the beast I'm creating is in my profile.

Best regards
Gonk

[Max-Paul]

Holy crap batman that is a mouth full what you have typed up!

Ok, I presume the following cause I got lost a few times with all of that info.

1st you are going to use a electric golf cart to pull some kind of trailer/float, correct?

2nd this golf cart is powered by 3 12 batteries, correct?

3rd You want to use LEDs to light up this float, and use D.C. voltage from the golf cart, right?

I do not understand your desire to use the DIO32? I would only use the CMB-16D-QC (can use multiple controllers to get enough channels) for the LEDs. This carputer, aka Laptop? You mention that it does not have enough power to do much than the USB. Well all you need is the USB port and yes will need a wee bit of power for the adapter/converter (USB serial to RS-485). So your computer should be fine.

As for the CMB-16D-QC controller. Cant remember if the minimum voltage is 9 or 12VDC, but you can go up to 60VDC. But the voltage applied to the controller is what the voltage out of the controller will be. So, you will need to use 1, 2, or 3 batteries depending on what voltage your going to need at the LEDs. And you will need to design the appropriate voltage regulator(s) for the LED circuits. And in some cases you might need to add a voltage dropping or some call it a current limiting resistors to the LED strings.

Firework effect under the float. I know that they make 12VDC strobes, but I dont know where. You might need to google for them. I use only 120VAC strobes. Might get some red spray paint and give a few strobes a light coat so that you get some red popping lights too.

enough for now

[jimswinder]

Gonkulor wrote:

Hello LORites

This is my first post. Please go easy but I have thick skin and will take criticism if warranted.

How can we go easy??

Especially if you only want criticism that is warranted!?!?!

[Gonkulor]

jimswinder wrote:

Gonkulor wrote:

Hello LORites

This is my first post. Please go easy but I have thick skin and will take criticism if warranted.

How can we go easy??

Especially if you only want criticism that is warranted!?!?! 

Hahaha. Point, set, Match! Ya got me there.:]

[Gonkulor]

Max-Paul I appreciate your reply and I must give my apologies, too much coffee and rushing to post before I took off to work. I do tend to run thoughts into incoherent sentences.

I will cut paste answers to try a concise reply.

Max-Paul - 1st you are going to use a electric golf cart to pull some kind of trailer/float, correct?
Me - Only the golf cart, no float or pulling of anything.

Max-Paul - 2nd this golf cart is powered by 3 12 batteries, correct?
Me - It is powered by 6 6volt batteries but I have already added one 12v automotive battery, for the computer and stereo, with anticipation of possibly adding 2 more.

Max-Paul - 3rd You want to use LEDs to light up this float, and use D.C. voltage from the golf cart, right?
Me - Yes Sir *Salute. In whatever way is the most efficient to last the longest between charges.

Max-Paul - This carputer, aka Laptop?
Me - It's a computer, I installed a touch screen monitor in the dash. It's one of the computers hobbyists put in cars, A.K.A carputer. I also have an RS-232[serial?] port but I may be reserving that for another project.

Max-Paul - So, you will need to use 1, 2, or 3 batteries depending on what voltage your going to need at the LEDs. And you will need to design the appropriate voltage regulator(s) for the LED circuits.
Me - That is kinda my dilemma. What voltage and how to keep a consistent 12 volts? I guess a DC-DC converter would be best 36v to 12v? I think I can get a 30amp, but they are not cheap. And I'll need 2.

Max-Paul - And in some cases you might need to add a voltage dropping or some call it a current limiting resistors to the LED strings.
Me - Easy squeezy.

Max-Paul - Firework effect under the float. I know that they make 12VDC strobes, but I dont know where. You might need to google for them.
Me - I did and that is an excellent idea. Your idea of the strobe lights inspired an idea of adding a smoke machine too.

Due to my planning of light placement, I'm thinking that 2 CMB-16-QC controllers will be needed. I'm seeing many many individual strip placements, from 1 foot to 5 feet. And I understand one RGB strip occupies 3 channels.

Wow, this got lengthy.

Thanks for the help *thumbup

Gonk

[Aaron Maue]

Gonk, this sounds like an awesome project! Would love to see pics when you're finished with it.

[Steven]

Gonkulor wrote:

But when I get down to lighter individual components I find they can run off 12v DC. AC inverters are rather inefficient which makes me want to stick with DC power.

That's a good decision! Most of the LED lights you want are available in 12v.

A DIO32 Motherboard and a CMB-16D-QC controller? The CMB is the daughter board correct? Both of these items in chain will provide me with enough sequencing channels from what I'm reading.

As Max-Paul said, there is no reason to use the DIO32 motherboard in your situation. Each CMB-16D controller will give you 16 channels of DC.

Because I have solely a DC power source with no auto style charging, I'll charge nightly when parked. I can use a DC-DC converter for my 36v battery pack or tap off individual batteries.

As I have learned from other sources, it's usually a bad idea to tap off individual batteries, because that will cause your battery pack to become unbalanced. Theoretically, you could split your 12v lights into 3 groups, and use 3 CMD-16D controllers, one on each 12v battery, with the 3 12v batteries wired in series, but you would have to balance the power requirements to get the most out of your battery pack.

I think your best bet is to buy a DC-DC converter. It will make your life easier.

I read that the CMB will only power the board if voltage drops below 12v and that makes me want to use the 36v pack but now I lost the 12v unless I tap individual batteries.

The electronics on the CMB-16D are normally powered from the input power, but it doesn't have to be. The board itself will operate from 5 to 60 volts DC. The on-board electronics can be powered from this, as long as it is 12 volts or greater.

So yes, you could connect the 36v pack directly to the CMD-16D, but then the outputs would be 36v. The voltage you apply to the input should match the voltage of the lights you will be controlling. For LED strip lighting, this usually means 12 volts.

Do I use the converter? If I use the converter I am limited to the output amp/wattage provided by the converter. Am I missing something? Should I get 2 converters? Or is this just the nature of the beast I'm trying to tame?

Yes, you can get 2 DC-DC converters and hook them up to the 2 power inputs on the CMB-16D board. They will share their negative terminal. You can actually use more than 2, if you can find some cheap 12v DC-DC converters. Hook the negative terminals together to the negative input on the CMB-16D, and hook the positive directly to the lights you are going to control with that converter.

[Gonkulor]

TYVM Steven. One question though. You said "The electronics on the CMB-16D are normally powered from the input power, but it doesn't have to be. The board itself will operate from 5 to 60 volts DC. The on-board electronics can be powered from this, as long as it is 12 volts or greater."

Maybe my confusion here is operating from 5 to 60VDC and it must be powered from 12VDC or greater. This mean 2 power inputs, the circuitry of the board operation itself must be 12VDC or greater but the board puts out the same voltage as whatever the hi power input is set at for powering lights?

I think I got it. I'll have to Power the board with the DC-DC converter. A 12VDC battery is aprox 12.44v fully charged but after an hour it will have slowly dropped under 12v.

I wanted to use something similiar to the PSU for the computer because it accepts input voltage of 3-30v with no jumpers, and it maintains constant 12v and 5v output until the supplied voltage drops under 6vdc. The ATX PSU just doesn't put out enough power on all it's rails.

I'm adding a photo so everyone can see how far I'm taking this.

Here is one for you Aaron Maue. The grille has 17 horizontal fins and I want each fin to have an RGB LED strip. Besides the 4th of July show I want to put on, I want the have lights sweep back on forth like Kitt did in the old tv show Knight Rider or more recently a cylons eye from Battlestar Gallactica. This is causing me to think I need many many channels.

Best regards and thanks for the replies
Gonk

[Steven]

Gonkulor wrote:

I think I got it. I'll have to Power the board with the DC-DC converter. A 12VDC battery is aprox 12.44v fully charged but after an hour it will have slowly dropped under 12v.

I could be wrong, but I think the "12 volts minimum" is a little "fuzzy." It can probably operate at 11 volts as well. I'll have to look at mine when I get home, but I think it's just a 5-volt regulator that supplies power to the electronics. I would be surprised if it didn't work with an ordinary 12v battery.

I wanted to use something similiar to the PSU for the computer because it accepts input voltage of 3-30v with no jumpers, and it maintains constant 12v and 5v output until the supplied voltage drops under 6vdc. The ATX PSU just doesn't put out enough power on all it's rails.

If you were concerned about the voltage to the electronics of the CMB-16D, you could power it from the ATX PSU, and then connect its input power directly to your 12v battery.

I want the have lights sweep back on forth like Kitt did in the old tv show Knight Rider or more recently a cylons eye from Battlestar Gallactica. This is causing me to think I need many many channels.

Now you're going beyond the capabilities of "dumb" RGB strips driven by a CMB-16D.

You could use a "smart" RGB strip, like a CCR, or you could cut segments out of a "dumb" strip and wire each segment to 3 channels of the DC controller. Or, to conserve channels, you could use a separate "Knight Rider bar" with 12 channels or so of red LEDs. Or, you could just buy one of those "Knight Rider bars" sold online that you wire to a single channel to make it sweep back and forth. Your other (RGB) strips would be mounted adjacent to it, and you wouldn't turn on both at the same time.

[Gonkulor]

Steven I really appreciate the quick replies.

When I was told to check this forum out, I was told the members here were gracious and helpful, just like the members over at the golf cart forum.

I'm merging about 4 or 5 different hobbies together and my time restraints for completing this is whole project is approaching too fast. I honestly don't have the time to read everything I should. I try to read enough to make an intelligent question, albeit I ask in circles but that is just me. LOL. I sure don't wanna be that guy who is asking to be spoon fed.

I do appreciate the help.

I did find one answer for powering the board circuitry. I'll do it from an extra supplied rail off of my ATX PSU. The CMB-16D-QC only requires 450 mW at 12vdc. That is only 38 mA. I didn't think the control circuit power all the way through. I should be fine to power multiples of those boards. I'll still need a couple DC-DC converters.

If I use multiple DC-DC converters I won't be able to hook the grounds together. Well, I don't think I can unless both converters are tapping off the same 36vdc battery pack. I had planned on putting one converter on each pack of batteries. I can try 2 off one pack and see how long it lasts. If the pack lasts long enough then Presto, another problem solved.

As far as smart vs. dumb strips? If I could also make designs, letters, faces, and ? with one smart strip? Well heck, that would be the way to go. I don't see that as possible though, maybe I'm wrong? I would think I could combine a couple of the grille fins. I might have to. 17 fins at a dumb strip rate of 3 to 4 channels a fin, oh boy, 4 boards just for the grille. I'll keep my options open.

Best Regards
Gonk

[Gonkulor]

I almost forgot.

Here is the ATX PSU I am using http://www.mini-box.com/M2-ATX-160w-Intelligent-Automotive-DC-DC-Power-Supply?sc=8&category=981 I'm not selling these and I don't recommend this unit other than it being a solution I required for powering my carputer.

I was wrong in stating its input voltage. It accepts 6-24vdc. It does supply 160w though and it should have enough reserve to power my boards.

One word of caution about using ATX PSUs. I have read here a couple discussions on this topic and I agree with those who remind all that the total power supplied is across all the rails [wires] ie. +12,-12,+5, and -5vdc leads. Maybe some PSUs will work when tying the multiple common rails together, maybe not.

[Aaron Maue]

That is awesome. I'm pretty handy with most things, but when it comes to more mechanical stuff like vehicles, engines, etc, I'm all thumbs, so this sort of thing really impresses me! Great to see the "before." And with the Night Rider reference, am looking even more forward to the "after."

[Gonkulor]

Steven wrote:

Now you're going beyond the capabilities of "dumb" RGB strips driven by a CMB-16D.

I did more reading. I think my intentions all along have been to use smart strips.

You could use a "smart" RGB strip, like a CCR, or you could cut segments out of a "dumb" strip and wire each segment to 3 channels of the DC controller.  Or, to conserve channels, you could use a separate "Knight Rider bar" with 12 channels or so of red LEDs.  Or, you could just buy one of those "Knight Rider bars" sold online that you wire to a single channel to make it sweep back and forth.  Your other (RGB) strips would be mounted adjacent to it, and you wouldn't turn on both at the same time.

Same answer as above. Yes a smart strip should do what I'm wanting. The sequencing may end up being a nightmare. I should add I plan to go with the advanced software package. It would be helpful if one could virtually seed their lights in the software. That is a question I haven't even begun to investigate and will just ignore for now. I only want to tackle a couple issues at a time. :cool:

Someone please correct me if I am wrong about smart v. dumb rgb led string lights. A dumb string of lights is just like the old school bulb lights when I was a kid BUT you still hook them up to a controller and make what ever basic effects you can. Basic effects are such as on/off/dim. Dumb lights don't have a chip so any effect possible is limited from the controller.

Smart strings have that little chip within each group of 3 lights. Do people commonly purchase dumb lights thinking they can get effects only possible from smart ones? Are adds misleading?

I believe all of my searching has been showing the smart variety of lights, but now I don't know. From the prices I see and the power consumption being higher, I always assumed I was looking at the sort of strings where individual light sections were controllable.

I will use some dumb lights, strobes, headlights, maybe brake lights.

Here is another newbie question, anyone have links for a high lumen tightly spaces smart strip. Maybe I could cut the sections up. Solder the sections and use them for my running, brake and blinkers? Then I would have more lights to twinkle in my show

Aaron, I'll be sure to make a video of my joy or failure. lol

Best Regards
Gonk

Yeah... I got the quote thingy figured out

[jimswinder]

Gonkulor wrote:

Here is another newbie question, anyone have links for a high lumen tightly spaces smart strip. Maybe I could cut the sections up. Solder the sections and use them for my running, brake and blinkers? Then I would have more lights to twinkle in my show

Why not just use Single bulb LED's?

You could get some C9 Sockets and Replaceable LED's...

Or even just some actual Auto LED Brake/Tail lights...

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=auto+brake+tail+light+LED&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14350859654534488287&sa=X&ei=3pOhT6iBBZHUiAKuhdXKBw&ved=0CJwBEPICMAI


Attached files

[Gonkulor]

jimswinder wrote:

Gonkulor wrote:

Here is another newbie question, anyone have links for a high lumen tightly spaces smart strip. Maybe I could cut the sections up. Solder the sections and use them for my running, brake and blinkers? Then I would have more lights to twinkle in my show

Why not just use Single bulb LED's?

You could get some C9 Sockets and Replaceable LED's...

Or even just some actual Auto LED Brake/Tail lights...

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=auto+brake+tail+light+LED&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14350859654534488287&sa=X&ei=3pOhT6iBBZHUiAKuhdXKBw&ved=0CJwBEPICMAI

One would think I could let it be that easy. lol This cart is all custom.

I am installing these. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1940-Ford-Taillights,3076.html?parentDisplayId=38347
If I went with a solid color smart strip I could make the sweeping motion match the grille.

I'm always keeping my options open.

[Gonkulor]

It's been a week of daily learning, wikis, faqs, instructional videos, and window shopping.

Here is where I'm at. Confused!

The CMB-16D-QC for my strobes, headlights and other 4 wheeled vehicle lights, and the fog machine.

E1.31 protocol for the smart strips and universes with a J1 ECG-M32MX/ECG-PIXAD8 combo. I hope that doesn't get me into trouble here.

Now. For the software to run all of this, do I have to get the iDMX1000 or can I patch cable the output of the J1 combo into the CMB as a stand alone universe?

Maybe I've gone to far and the CMB still stays connected to USB. As long as the software still accepts this approach I'm fine with it.

Is there a bridge I should look at?

Honestly though. I am an aircraft mechanic of 20+ years and I have been trained very hard to look at all technical instructions in a way of "As Per, And In Accordance With". I have a very hard time when jargon starts getting tossed around to mean different things, or terms get applied loosely. I catch errors in instructional videos and start pulling my hair out. LOL

Thanks guys, you have been most helpful so far.
Gonk

[Steven]

Gonkulor wrote:

Now. For the software to run all of this, do I have to get the iDMX1000

No. The iDMX1000 will give you a single DMX output, not E1.31.

or can I patch cable the output of the J1 combo into the CMB as a stand alone universe?

Reading the J1 web site, I don't think the J1 combo has a DMX output. I could be wrong.

Maybe I've gone to far and the CMB still stays connected to USB. As long as the software still accepts this approach I'm fine with it.

The CMB-16D, like most LOR controllers, can decode either the LOR or the DMX protocol. For fades and shimmer, the LOR protocol is best.

The USB-485 plugs into the USB port on the computer, and outputs either LOR or DMX. Since you won't be using any native DMX devices, you should configure it in the standard configuration, which is the LOR protocol, and plug that into the CMB-16DC.

Is there a bridge I should look at?

Yes, several of us are using the ELOR. Its input is a LOR network, and its output is E1.31. It doesn't require a separate power supply (it gets its power from the LOR network cable), and can be hooked directly to the ECG-M32MX. It looks like 4 iDMX1000's to the LOR software. Physically, your LOR network cable would start at the USB-485, go to the CMB-16D, then attach to the ELOR (or any other order).

Or you could wait and see how well the native LOR E1.31 support works. Supposedly, it's in Beta.

I have a very hard time when jargon starts getting tossed around to mean different things, or terms get applied loosely.

The following jargon is sometimes confused, but is generally agreed:
LOR network: The RS485 network running the LOR protocol that can come out of a USB-485 running in normal (LOR) mode.
DMX Universe: A RS485 network that can support 512 DMX channels.
Pixel: Usually a RGB LED that usually takes 3 channels. May also be multiple LEDs that are wired together to show the same color.
Pixel strip: A string of Pixels, individually addressed.
Dumb strip: shows the same color throughout the whole strip, usually 3 12-volt strings of red, green, and blue LEDs.

[scubado]

I'm going to throw another idea at you. For underneath, instead of using RGB ribbon, you can get RGB 10W-50W leds. These work great for bright floods. I use 20W whites for my Aux. driving lights on my van. A friend of mine recently got a 50W white led that would be killer lightning for Halloween, it would use your 36V. He's planning to made a waterproof fixture to light up the water for carp shooting. I recently installed some leftover RGB ribbon on my bicycle with a DMX controller for shidts and giggles.

[Gonkulor]

scubado wrote:

I'm going to throw another idea at you. For underneath, instead of using RGB ribbon, you can get RGB 10W-50W leds. These work great for bright floods. I use 20W whites for my Aux. driving lights on my van. A friend of mine recently got a 50W white led that would be killer lightning for Halloween, it would use your 36V. He's planning to made a waterproof fixture to light up the water for carp shooting. I recently installed some leftover RGB ribbon on my bicycle with a DMX controller for shidts and giggles.

Interesting. Maybe a couple of those larger current LEDs would work. I hadn't thought of that. But as far as the strips, I think I'm leaning more now towards pixel and non pixel strings.

The strips are nice when they are peel and stick, but I'm not so sure about the 3-4" sections being on/off/dim. The cart is only 5 feet long and I want to have a ball of light pulse and spin around the underside circumference, in the wheel wells and inside the headlight bezels. I'll need many strings.