Rope Light for Singing Faces

[funkymzk]

Hey Everyone!

New to the whole LOR thing and could use some advice.
I decided i was going to run my three singing faces (6x6 - 5x5 - 5x5) 12VDC. So i purchased 2 LOR CMB16D-QC boards. Got LOR's usb dongle and advanced software S3 (hoping to get into dmx and RGB later this summer). I'm having a REAL hard time figuring out what rope light to use. I wanted to go LED for the power savings but i cant seem to find any 3/8. I understand thats the easiest to make bends with. Everything i see is 1/2 inch and can only be cut every 3 feet! Also dimming and flashing seems hit or miss as well. I found a place called birddog that has old skool incandescent 12V 150" spools for 99.00. Can be cut every 3 inches. 3 watts per foot. Very reasonable. Should be enough to do my 3 faces or at least two! Not happy with the powere requirments compared to LED's, but within my limit for the board. My 6x6 needs about 52 feet. If i did my math right 52x3=156 watts. 156 watts / 12vdc = 13amps. Each face is 7 channels. So i can run 2 off one controller for a total of 312 watts at 26 amps. Well within the boards 40 amp limit. Think I can drive it off one 350W 30Amp Power supply, or should i go for two for plenty of headroom? Getting pretty close to the 350watt 30 amp limit and only wanted to drive them 80-85% full load. I was thinking one would be ok since they're not always lit up full all the time.

Am i going to be disappointed with the brightness of the 12VDC incandescents? Are they any less brighter then there 120V incandescent cousins? I have seen some videos on you tube about LED rope light being able to be cut at 6" lengths, but he said it was hit or miss whether you had to stick to the cut every 3 foot rule. Some could, some couldnt. Depended on manufacturer. Considering how much that stuff costs, dont want to risk it. Really wanted to go LED but at this point want the best bang for buck and easiest to work with. If i have to cut the LED every 3 feet sure seems like im going to be wasting a lot of it in blackout sections and it's going to get pricey! This is what im looking at right now:

http://www.birddogdistributing.com/150ft-2-Wire-12-Volt-Three-Eighths-Inch-Clear-Rope-Light-Spool.html

I read on one of the forums Cracker wanted to switch his faces to LED this year and wondered if he came up with anything? Im assuming if he does he will move from AC to DC. Think what im looking at is ok? His faces look so uniformly lit in his videos but i guess it could be the distance from the camera. I understand his are 120V incandescents.

Frames built. Some songs sequenced. Being an adobe premiere guy had no problem with the sequencing. Mouth movements look great in the previewer! Cant seem to pull the trigger on rope light! Wish i would have went AC. this is turning out to be a pain in the butt picking something. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Keith Adams]

Cracker may have meant rgb pixels instead of led ropelight as almost all of his display is rgb. I wouldn't worry so much about cut length. You just use black tape and wrap around the parts you don't want seen. This is also how it appears to make sharp bends but really isn't. I am using incandescent rope light so I can't help you on that part.

[caniac]

Keith Adams wrote:

Cracker may have meant rgb pixels instead of led ropelight as almost all of his display is rgb. I wouldn't worry so much about cut length. You just use black tape and wrap around the parts you don't want seen. This is also how it appears to make sharp bends but really isn't. I am using incandescent rope light so I can't help you on that part.

I don't think Cracker converted the faces yet, I think they are still ican. Everything else is either CCR's or RGB's.

[funkymzk]

Hey Keith

"I wouldn't worry so much about cut length. You just use black tape and wrap around the parts you don't want seen."

If i go with incandescent, I know i can cut them in 3" sections. Tubing size is right 3/8. Power not to bad. I know they can dim and flash per manufacturers answer. I guess what i was trying to get across is that if a part of my face uses a 4 foot section of led rope light, and I can only cut it at 3 foot intervals, thats almost 2 feet blacked out for that section, and thats only one channel! seems like a big waste of lights and money.

Would love to know if someone knew a good source for single color led rope light that COULD be cut in small sections. I've had no luck. Would rather go with that. Hate to spend the $$$ on LED rope only to find out i'll be running into many problems.

Im leaning towards the light i linked above. Sad i can't find LED rope light like I want.

I thought about going with the single color flex strips like the rgb strips, but it wouldnt bend the right way.
Not sure if i wanted to get into that kind of slicing and dicing. The OHH for the mouth would be really hard for that, but i guess I could make it a hexagon. Most of the single color LED strips look like they can be cut every 3 LEDS. Possible, but a lot more work!!! Hmmmmm...

Right now my biggest concern is that the 12v rope light is as BRIGHT as the 120V rope light. The manufacturer said yes, but wondering if anyone could confirm this.

Still hoping i'm not going to regret the DC decision!

Thanks Keith!

[Dennis Laff]

Christmas-leds.com has 3/8 led rope light ibuy a lot from them good company.

[funkymzk]

Hey Caniac.

Yeah pretty sure crackers are still incandescents. He had said in one of his posts after going rgb you could tell the difference between the firesticks and faces vs the leds. The icans still looked great though!I knew it was something he planned on doing. Just curious if he has run into the same road blocks as me. Or is he going the slice and dice flexstrip led route.

The single color flexstrips are cheap enough, easy to cut in small sections and found a few that are dimmable and flashable (one of the reasons i went LOR-the nice twinkling, shimmering, fading, etc..) if i just wanted them on and off probably would have done DC thru DMX universes.

So still not sure what to do. If the icans are bright enough at 12v, might be the way to go this year. But since LED is the new tech, sure like to take advantage of it!!! Just hate to waste the money blacking out really large sections.

Been living in these forums hoping for a sign from the lighting god!

Thanx!

[funkymzk]

Thanks for the link Dennis! Didn't come across them in my endless surfing. 20" is better than 36" Still wish i could get those sections to 12" or less. Of course i had had sticker shock at the price of a 150' roll of white! Maybe yellow will work. Was hoping for white. Might have to take the wife out for that one! Not sure what the CFO would say about $300 and change.Cant believe the price difference between the two. Definately food for thought though!
Thanx muchly!

[Dennis Cherry]

To get what you want it has to be 12 volt LED rope light. You can find it in cut lengths from 3-4 inches.

Here is one: http://www.birddogdistributing.com/150ft-2-Wire-12-Volt-Three-Eighths-Inch-Green-Rope-Light-Spool.html

Other colors available.

You will need to use a DC controller for this with a 12 Volt DC power supply.

[funkymzk]

Hey Dennis

I do have all DC controllers. That's the stuff i looked at. But it is incandescent NOT led. But it does fit the bill. All the other lights in my display will be RGB and LED so i'm mostly concerned about how bright it will be and will it look funny when placed with the other lights.

We had LEDS on our dogwoods last year and icans on the rest of the house and it was a BIG difference. (to me anyway)

I did find some super bright incandescent rope but it was 5.5 watts a foot. At that wattage i'd be pushing it with the dc board. 52x5=286 watts 286/12=23 amps. They're only 20 amps a side. I also want to drive 2 faces off one dc board so i'd be looking at two power supplys for one board. If i have to go that route i might as well have purchased the LOR AC controllers. Really want to stick with DC.

So its hard to make a decision not seeing it lit up. I'm also new to this so I don't know if there is a difference in brightness between 12VDC or 120AC. Can anyone confirm?

[Dennis Cherry]

funkymzk wrote:

Hey Dennis

I do have all DC controllers. That's the stuff i looked at. But it is incandescent NOT led. But it does fit the bill. All the other lights in my display will be RGB and LED so i'm mostly concerned about how bright it will be and will it look funny when placed with the other lights.

We had LEDS on our dogwoods last year and icans on the rest of the house and it was a BIG difference. (to me anyway)

I did find some super bright incandescent rope but it was 5.5 watts a foot. At that wattage i'd be pushing it with the dc board. 52x5=286 watts 286/12=23 amps. They're only 20 amps a side. I also want to drive 2 faces off one dc board so i'd be looking at two power supplys for one board. If i have to go that route i might as well have purchased the LOR AC controllers. Really want to stick with DC.

So its hard to make a decision not seeing it lit up. I'm also new to this so I don't know if there is a difference in brightness between 12VDC or 120AC. Can anyone confirm?

Oops:

Caught me with a red face.

I did find another one but the specifications are confusing, sent an email and waiting for a reply. Problem is a 12 Volt rope light with 1" spacing and can only be cut every 1 meter. Got to see this wiring configuration.

Will let you know the answer.

Regards

[CLD Kevin]

My faces are still incans....120V cuts every 18 inches. I had to black out a few parts here and there...very little. In the video they look almost LED. But see them for real...you can really see the difference. Same with the firesticks.


I did say I wanted to switch to LED, but for the faces I don't see a need for RGB. I think it would be a nice option to change the colors of the face, but don’t think it’s a must. Plus I cant find true RGB rope light that isn't a small fortune.


Unfortunately LED rope light cut lengths are much longer than incans, don’t come in 3/8 inch and the fading may not be as smooth as the incan which is important for mouth movements...its all about perfect timing and fades. I’m actually waiting on a LED rope light that has a smaller cuttable length. Should arrive by next week. As for the fades...we shall see.


Kevin

[Dennis Cherry]

Got an answer back already.

[Dennis Cherry]

For some reason my post above is not complete.

I got the answer back already:

"yes, our 12V is cuttable every 3-4 inches. Our 110V is cuttable every 1 meter."

Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12v-COOL-WHITE-LED-Rope-Lights-Home-Lighting-Auto-Boat-/230624202478?pt=Lamps_US&var=&hash=item7b68191d73

Also found this:

http://www.amazon.com/Volts-Rope-Lights-Lighting-Meters/dp/B0049ILX78

Look at the product descriptions on both. looks like he is buying the Amazon product.

[k6ccc]

I have a bunch of the 1/2 inch version, but this page also lists 3/8 inch. Other colors are available. Cutting distance is 4 inches.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/led-12-volt-clear-rope-light/

I am very happy with it.

[Jerry]

Hey funky, I think you may be over concerned about your power requirements as not all of your mouth channels will be on at the same time. I used 18" cut length incans. ,1/2" and 3/8" for mine. You can adjust your pattern a bit as you build to minimize the blacked out ends. My faces are 7'x 7' and 6'x 6', and I had very little waste. Jerry

[funkymzk]

Thanks for all the answers guys!

I looked at that stuff on ebay Dennis. I thought the pricing was good. Even though they emailed you back about specs, sure seems that all the incans i've read about can be cut in small sections while the leds seem to be around 1 meter. So i'm wondering if he got it backwards!
If not that would be awesome!

K6ccc thanks for the clarification on the bulbs1000 rope light. Wasnt sure if what i read was 3 1/4 feet or inches. So that's good news. Any info on how it fades?

I was almost excited about the incan 3/8 pearl white 150' spool for around 80 bux at bulbs1000 but im thinking at 2.5 watts a foot it isnt going to be very bright. If i go for the super bright i'd have to add another dc controller for the third face and split each faces channels across banks 1-8 and 9-16 to keep the amps in line. Cracker are your incans 5 watts per foot?

+Cracker you are working on that last answer im looking for. Sure seems like Rope LED's that dim are hit and miss. I had caught one of the threads about the fading of mouth movements and tried it in some of my sequences. Definately makes a world of difference.

Cracker feel free to PM me about what you find out with the fading. I was trying to keep the cost down on the light but if i have to spring for another dc board, ps and enclosure, i'll probably just pay the extra money for the led rope light!

What do you guy think about the possibilty of using the flexstrips. They cut every 3 leds, dim, flash, and are reasonable $$$. The hardest part would be the OHH(thinking hexagon) and AHH. could overlap some of the corners to make it look uniform. Lot of cutting, soldering and extra work but most of the face is straight edges!

Attached a pic of the measurements i sketched out on my basement floor in chalk just to get an idea of the rope lengths needed.

I've read, i've researched, i've sequenced, and i knew i'd have problems along the way with this hobby but i didnt think it would be purchasing the lights! Too funny.

Thanx everyone!!!

Attached files

[funkymzk]

Looks like the bulbs1000 stuff isnt dimmable. Bummer.

[funkymzk]

Jerry wrote:

Hey funky, I think you may be over concerned about your power requirements as not all of your mouth channels will be on at the same time. I used 18" cut length incans. ,1/2" and 3/8" for mine. You can adjust your pattern a bit as you build to minimize the blacked out ends. My faces are 7'x 7' and 6'x 6', and I had very little waste. Jerry

I wondered about that too Jerry. I am calculating like they would be all on, all the time just to play it safe.
The 5 watt a foot incans look like they will fit the bill.
Fully on all the time they will draw 260 watts and 21 amps. Do you think 2 faces on one board would be pushing it? Just didnt want to fry stuff right outta the gate!

[Jerry]

The folks at 1000bulbs are great to work with, and the prices are reasonable. You could give them a call ,bet they could help you out. Jerry

[funkymzk]

Dennis Cherry wrote:

For some reason my post above is not complete.

I got the answer back already:

"yes, our 12V is cuttable every 3-4 inches. Our 110V is cuttable every 1 meter."

Here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12v-COOL-WHITE-LED-Rope-Lights-Home-Lighting-Auto-Boat-/230624202478?pt=Lamps_US&var=&hash=item7b68191d73

Also found this:

http://www.amazon.com/Volts-Rope-Lights-Lighting-Meters/dp/B0049ILX78

Look at the product descriptions on both. looks like he is buying the Amazon product.

Just followed the link. Says in description cuts every meter. Can you say "Should have went AC!"