LoR + Led Rectifiers

[NightSky]

Hi guys my 1st post woohoo

Im in a position where my lights are bad, they're so bad im surprised they even worked at all this year, so i have decided to put some effort into next yr's display starting from scratch.
Im in the Uk so on a 240v supply, and am looking at using led strings and led rope light.

I read here somewhere that multi function lights cause problems due to the controllers they come with, and need some work to keep them on static, the plugs are usually the size of half a house brick, so are bulky and im really trying to avoid these anyway.

Im looking for the simplest option really and the led strings i prefer are are slightly more expensive static connectable (Upto 40-50 sets of 100, i dont plan to get anywhere near this yet). But it gives me a plug and play system with the option to shorten or extend, put different color led strings inline, very easily.
This works with only one rectifier in the power launch lead, which i guess converts to dc? So if i cut the bs plug off of the launch lead and adapt to fit a ctb16pc...... will the launch lead rectifier cause me any problems, or will the static lights even work/have longevity when using the lor controller effects with these ac/dc rectifiers on strings and rope lights?

Thanks in advance and Happy New Year

Steve

[jer75]

Hi NightSky ,
I'm here in the uk near Bath , Its my first year using LOR but next year will be bigger and many lessons learnt along the way , I used static rope lights this year which I just cut the bs plug off and fitted US plugs to . I did have 4 that had controller boxes on but I cut these off and just worked out which were the lives and which was the neutral and wired them accordingly.
I used normal incans for my mini trees but unfortunately the bulbs were pretty poor and after just 8 days I'd lost all my mini trees.
I'm switching to M5/6 LEDs next year , I'm thinking of going over to 120v using 3.3kva transformers ( yellow builders type) , mainly due to the high cost of LEDs in this country .
I've sent you a pm .
Here's a link to my display this year before I lost my mini trees , qualitys not to good but you get the idea

Cheers

Jerry

[NightSky]

Hi Jerry

Sounds like were in the same boat with lights letting us down?

The 110v contractor transformers were my 2nd option, as i see they have 2 16 amp outputs, they are a good price, and maybe just as easy?

Am i right in thinking then the 120v us led/incan lights etc, dont have any rectifiers and use 120v ac throughout the light string?
And is it possible to join them together or split them after the lor controller? Or is it a case of more lights = more controller channels = more controllers?

Thanks

Steve

[jer75]

Hi Steve ,
from what I can see they use a male plug that runs into a small block , this could be a rectifier , but the beauty of them is that they have female sockets on the other end so 100 can become 400 . I have seen some of the male plugs that allow for another plugged straight into the top so you could with an extension lead run say 2 covered bushes from the same channel , assuming that you dont go over the load limit for a channel .
I already have 4 110v transformers that I use for work so I'm leaning towards 120v LEDs as it may well be the easiest option for me. I'm just waiting to hear from my friend about the 240v LEDs. there are some guides on here that allow you to work out the ampage draw but I cant find them . I'm sure one of the US guys on here may be able to help as to the amount of LEDs /strings per channel. I would be interested as well.

Cheers
Jerry

[jer75]

Hi again Steve ,
If you look at the picture in the 3rd post down in this thread you'll see what I mean by stackable plugs ,
http://forums.lightorama.com/forum79/26627.html

[Max-Paul]

Hi Jerry and Steve,

The current draw depends on the number of LEDs, and how the string is constructed. For example if it is a string of 50 then all of the LEDs are in series, the current might be only 20mA. But a string of 70 might be of two parallel circuits of 35 LEDs. Then the current will double to say 40mA.
I think the limit of 13 strings of LEDs in series is the limit due to the size of the wire used in the string. Also even if you where to plug all of the male plugs in piggy back (all stacked on top of each other at the socket). You would still be limited to about 13 strings I think due to the fuse in the male plugs.

Over here in the states most of us refer to that thing right after the male plug and just before the female at the other end, and in some cases 1 or 2 more on the string as "Line Warts". Usually the diodes and maybe a resistor will be found in those line warts. In half wave a diode really is not needed. But to have true full wave LED light string you will need at least 4 diodes. Some of use can really see the rapid blinking from half wave strings.

Cheers Gents
Max in Missouri

[jer75]

Thanks Max-Paul ,
that explains an awful lot for me as I'm planning a spiral tree with 16 channels of 8 white and 8 blue for next year , I was looking at strings of 100 LEDs so I could double them up for a fuller look. I do have a plug in tester to see the ampage being drawn but wasnt sure if the male plugs were fused or not.
Great help many thanks,
Cheers
Jerry

[De Trommelslager]

Read through this thread.
http://forums.lightorama.com/forum76/31269.html

It will outline the basics needed to calculate your electrical loads. Just keep in mind that your nominal voltage will be 220V rather than 120V, but otherwise it all works the same.


As for lights, in my mind using a step down transformer (220V to 120V) feeding a sub panel would be the best solution. The 120V lights are plentiful and there are probably have more options available. This may not be the case depending on building standards, regulations, or other unknowns. I am unfamiliar with UK standards, but the electrons flow the same way!

To figure out the appropriate sized transformer, calculate your total load for the entire display (unless you use multiple transformers) and buy a suitable sized transformer to handle the load. Be sure to leave some safety margin (extra Wattage on the transformer)! If you are even remotely thinking of expanding in future years, build in the capacity on the front end.

For example, let's say your total display load is 3,500 Watts and you want to add to it next year and the year after. A 5,000 Watt transformer would handle your load, but would leave little room for growth; but a 15,000 Watt transformer would have some capacity for future growth. These are just random figures used to illustrate the point.

Hope that helps!

[NightSky]

Hi max, jerry, de tromelslager.

Guys im checking prices on the led's in the us and im leaning towards the transformer with 120v lights.
The cost difference is unbelievable!! :shock:
And it's still plug and play.

I like the look of the HLE 5mm and m6 mini lights, and to be honest i dont need to connect above 4-6 strings of each color at the moment.......decent strobes are available going down this route too.

Any idea what the electrical spec on these led's might be?

I may have to speak to an electrician to check my main board, so i know where i stand with juice to these transformers and the amount of controllers they'd take.

There's a bit more to this, than sticking some lights on a controller and hoping they work lol.

Thanks again

[jer75]

Hi nightsky ,
now you can see why I'm going down the 120v route next year , I'm running 2 controllers at the moment on a seperate fuse board fed with 4mm Armoured cable and each controller goes through a seperate 16 amp MCB trip. I've worked out that I can load 6 controllers on to this board via 3.3kva twin 16amp outputs as the controllers will actually pull 14 amps in total each. I've not had a single problem this year and I'm going up to 4 controllers for next year.
The 5mm and M6 LEDs are the ones I'm going to get for next year , I feel they will be more than bright enough for my roof panels ,spiral tree and mini trees. I'm looking at 4 arches as well.
Cheers
Jerry