ryebred Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I have 20 Rainbow spotlights that I will be connecting together in groups of five. I need 4 conductors to each spotlight and the holes on the PCB fit 20 AWG wire. Searching for 20/4 wire returns thermostat cable which seems to come in brown and white jackets. This is made for in wall installations but I think I can use it for the spotlights.Has anyone used this before for outdoor decorations? I would really prefer white jacket over an ugly brown jacket but the cheapest white jacketed thermostat wire I can find is $147 for a 500 foot spool. I need about 250 feet of it.http://www.awcwire.com/Part.aspx?code=447H36H8J40However I found brown jacketed wire for $49.95.http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=10919I do not like white that much that I would be willing to pay $100 more for it. Not sure if there is any other difference between the two wires that would explain the big discrepancy in price.On a trial run I tried some left over sprinkler wire I had but that is 18 AWG and I have not found any sprinkler wire in 20 AWG. So I had to attach a 20 AWG wire to the 18 AWG and then attach that to the holes. Do not really want to do that for the rest of the 19 spotlights but sprinkler wire is cheap and it is made to be insulated from water. Will jacketed thermostat wire be fine in an outdoor setting with rain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmilkie Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I don't know anything about the Rainbow spotlights, can you go to a smaller gauge wire ie: 22awg or 24 awg? I see Homedepot has 1000ft for about $75.They are lots of places that sell wire, Newark, Digikey, etc but usually have to by 500ft or 1000ft.http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Cable-Networking-Phone-Data-Cable/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbt26/h_d2/Navigation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053Ν=P_PARENT_ID&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1ryebred wrote:I have 20 Rainbow spotlights that I will be connecting together in groups of five. I need 4 conductors to each spotlight and the holes on the PCB fit 20 AWG wire. Searching for 20/4 wire returns thermostat cable which seems to come in brown and white jackets. This is made for in wall installations but I think I can use it for the spotlights.Has anyone used this before for outdoor decorations? I would really prefer white jacket over an ugly brown jacket but the cheapest white jacketed thermostat wire I can find is $147 for a 500 foot spool. I need about 250 feet of it.http://www.awcwire.com/Part.aspx?code=447H36H8J40However I found brown jacketed wire for $49.95.http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=10919I do not like white that much that I would be willing to pay $100 more for it. Not sure if there is any other difference between the two wires that would explain the big discrepancy in price.On a trial run I tried some left over sprinkler wire I had but that is 18 AWG and I have not found any sprinkler wire in 20 AWG. So I had to attach a 20 AWG wire to the 18 AWG and then attach that to the holes. Do not really want to do that for the rest of the 19 spotlights but sprinkler wire is cheap and it is made to be insulated from water. Will jacketed thermostat wire be fine in an outdoor setting with rain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Have you checked ebay? I needed similar for several rainbow floods, picked up 4 conductor 22 gauge stranded, white jacket, for about 100 bucks for 500 feet. It was actually advertised as security system/alarm wire.I'm not a big fan of t-stat wire for this stuff since it is solid, rather than stranded, but otherwise it would work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubado Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 If these are temporary setups with your floods, use stranded wire. Solid wire will just fustrate you more because of it's stiffness. Stranded wire usually costs more, but worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryebred Posted September 3, 2011 Author Share Posted September 3, 2011 The rainbow spotlights say that at 100% intensity they draw .64 amps. I will have 5 connected together on one line so that would be 3.2 amps at 12 VDC.According to the American Wire Gauge guidelines table, 20 AWG wire can handle 11 amps and 22 AWG can handle 7. 24 AWG wire can handle 3.4 so that is cutting it close even though the guidelines are conservative. 20 AWG seems overkill so maybe 22 is better for my application.Does voltage effect the handling capacity of wire? Is 3 amps at 12 VDC the same as 3 amps at 120 VAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Ancona Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Dan Ancona wrote: I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it).People just need to be cool about it...yuk, yuk.A little HVAC humor on a saturday afternoon..:cool::cool:Yea, I know..VERY little humor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shfr26 Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 DonFL wrote: Dan Ancona wrote: I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it).People just need to be cool about it...yuk, yuk.A little HVAC humor on a saturday afternoon..:cool::cool:Yea, I know..VERY little humor...very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBullard Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 Dan Ancona wrote: I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it).Dan,Now who would give you heat for using thermostat wire? Not me!Now some of the other things you do you deserve to take heat for....About how you acquire all your windshield wiper motors for your animated props by cruising the parking lot of the movie theater at night.....or the way you described cruising the residental area looking for kids on a motorized hot wheel toy so you could snatch and grab it for the motor....and by driving away real fast so you wouldn't hear him crying......Yeah Dan, you deserve heat for some things,.....but not for using thermostat wire.Disclaimer: I'm sure I heard Dan describe the above events during his presentation at the last New Jersey Epic...............or I have a wild imagination. You decide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2011 Share Posted September 3, 2011 shfr26 wrote: DonFL wrote: Dan Ancona wrote: I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it).People just need to be cool about it...yuk, yuk.A little HVAC humor on a saturday afternoon..:cool::cool:Yea, I know..VERY little humor...very little.tough crowd today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted September 4, 2011 Share Posted September 4, 2011 ryebred wrote: Does voltage effect the handling capacity of wire? Is 3 amps at 12 VDC the same as 3 amps at 120 VAC?The capacity of the wire is measured in amps. The voltage doesn't matter for that. The insulation of a cable determines how much voltage it can handle.However, the voltage drop of a cable can make more of a difference at a lower voltage. For example, if you have a 50' cable (100' of wire) of 20AWG that is passing 3 amps, the voltage drop will be 3 volts (20AWG is about 10 ohms per 1000 feet). At 120VAC that will drop the voltage down to 117V, so you wouldn't notice. However at 12VDC that cable would drop the voltage down to 9V, which is a noticeable difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Benedict Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Try searching for Trailer Wire on Ebay. It's available down to 18 gage and always stranded and weatherproof. Easily available in four conductor and sometimes 5 or 6 conductor. If you have a Harbor Freight store near you, they always carry it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Ancona Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 JBullard wrote: Dan Ancona wrote: I use CAT5 for my Rainbows. Didn't have any problems last year. I also use thermostat wire for a few things in the display (and will take some heat for it).Dan,Now who would give you heat for using thermostat wire? Not me!Now some of the other things you do you deserve to take heat for....About how you acquire all your windshield wiper motors for your animated props by cruising the parking lot of the movie theater at night.....or the way you described cruising the residental area looking for kids on a motorized hot wheel toy so you could snatch and grab it for the motor....and by driving away real fast so you wouldn't hear him crying......Yeah Dan, you deserve heat for some things,.....but not for using thermostat wire.Disclaimer: I'm sure I heard Dan describe the above events during his presentation at the last New Jersey Epic...............or I have a wild imagination. You decideI can't say you are incorrect about any of these.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryebred Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Steven wrote: However, the voltage drop of a cable can make more of a difference at a lower voltage. For example, if you have a 50' cable (100' of wire) of 20AWG that is passing 3 amps, the voltage drop will be 3 volts (20AWG is about 10 ohms per 1000 feet). At 120VAC that will drop the voltage down to 117V, so you wouldn't notice. However at 12VDC that cable would drop the voltage down to 9V, which is a noticeable difference.Thanks Steven. Looking at a voltage drop calculator, my line length would be around 30 feet. At 3 amps this gives me a 1.8 volt drop on 20 gauge wire and 2.65 volts on 22 gauge wire. Both are outside the no more than 10% drop in voltage rule though most of the time I will be drawing less than 3 amps.The other factor is whether or not my power supply is delivering 12 volts or if it is stepped up at all to compensate for the voltage drop. Will have to check that when I get home.I guess I will try with 22 AWG and see what happens as I have found it for cheaper than 20 AWG and in the color I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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