Transistion to a shimer

[Arnoldc]

Ok, I have a few power chords on my song I am working on. My question is I want it lights full on, then slowly switch over to a shimmer.. Is this possible?

[Guest guest]

Arnold,

My bad on the first advice(that got sent out after submission via e-mail options for those that get them), I was thinking just going from a solid to a slow shimmer was possible, but there isn't a way to do this slowly or smoothly, you can start with a solid fade and go into a shimmer, but it's abrupt, and I don't think that is what you're trying to do.

My apologies for the first rendetion as you just can't slowly go from a solid fade down to a shimmering fade down. Would be nice if you could, but everything I just tried ends up with an abrupt change from one to the other.

[Arnoldc]

That's kinda what I figured... But I didn't get an email from you.. Maybe Att is having issues yet again..
Thanks for trying though!

[marquisite]

I have wondered how to do something like this with twinkle.

Maybe something to submit to the LOR wishlist in the future?

This could be acheived by having a "min" and "max" intensity value.

At the moment the minimum is always 0 (off) for twinkle and shimmer.. with the maximum adjusted when using a custom fade/intensity effect combined with twinkle/shimmer.

A picture speaks a 1000 words, so here's a photoshopped screen of LOR S2


Attached files

[Arnoldc]

marquisite wrote:

I have wondered how to do something like this with twinkle.

Maybe something to submit to the LOR wishlist in the future?

This could be acheived by having a "min" and "max" intensity value.

At the moment the minimum is always 0 (off) for twinkle and shimmer.. with the maximum adjusted when using a custom fade/intensity effect combined with twinkle/shimmer.

A picture speaks a 1000 words, so here's a photoshopped screen of LOR S2

That is exactly what I want!!

[Guest guest]

marquisite wrote:

I have wondered how to do something like this with twinkle.

Maybe something to submit to the LOR wishlist in the future?

This could be acheived by having a "min" and "max" intensity value.

At the moment the minimum is always 0 (off) for twinkle and shimmer.. with the maximum adjusted when using a custom fade/intensity effect combined with twinkle/shimmer.

A picture speaks a 1000 words, so here's a photoshopped screen of LOR S2

Okay, I've gpt to ask, how did you get the ramps to "overlap" like that? All I can get is a ramp up/down, then fade from a lesser intensity from the full on ramp somewhere after the 100% mark. I have yet to be able to make them overlap like it shows in your photo (if I'm looking at it correctly).

There are some areas of some of my sequences I'd like to do that too, but I always end up with an abrupt change from 100% intensity to 0%, then add in a shimmer at the 50% area of the full on fade down and then ramp down the shimmer effect, it's not smooth by any means, goes from steady on to shimmer, instead of the slow fade into a slow shimmer.

So I'd like a step by step instruction set on how you're getting those two different ramps to overlap. Every time I have tried, it just overwrites the pre-existing ramp down or ramp up.

And is this being done with a musical sequence?

As that is what Arnold and I are both trying to do.

Your pic looks more like an animation sequence, which won't work with a musical sequence if I'm thinking correctly here?)

[marquisite]

Sorry, I didn't meant to mislead you. The above screencap is Photoshopped, showing what should be a feature in the LOR Software Suite in the future. At present, it isn't possible to do either with an animation or musical sequence.

I should have made the text in the timeline that says "suggestion only" more opaque and bigger to avoid misleading you. The screen was resized by the forum software which made readability of that notice pretty poor.

I figured a screenshot would would be the best way at showing how the function could work for a better chance at getting it added to a future release of the sequencer.

More than an hour has passed since my original post so I am unable to replace the attached photoshopped image with one that is less misleading. Instead I have included it in this post.

If Dan is watching, this is another feature to add to the to do list


Attached files

[Guest guest]

marquisite wrote:

Sorry, I didn't meant to mislead you. The above screencap is Photoshopped, showing what should be a feature in the LOR Software Suite in the future. At present, it isn't possible to do either with an animation or musical sequence.

I should have made the text in the timeline that says "suggestion only" more opaque and bigger to avoid misleading you. The screen was resized by the forum software which made readability of that notice pretty poor.

I figured a screenshot would would be the best way at showing how the function could work for a better chance at getting it added to a future release of the sequencer.

More than an hour has passed since my original post so I am unable to replace the attached photoshopped image with one that is less misleading. Instead I have included it in this post.

If Dan is watching, this is another feature to add to the to do list

Yes, I agree, this feature IS NEEDED! I saw that it was photoshopped, but didn't see any of the other text about it being not implemented or available. I didn't think it was possible, but thought it better to ask than not and just keep wondering...Now how in the heck did they do that? :cool:

[George Simmons]

The closest thing we have to that is pasting from foreground, or else adding background effects around something already in the foreground. But each of those approaches allow only one function at a time in a cell.

What you're asking is for a channel to perform two separate lighting instructions (fade down and ramp shimmer up) at the same time. I'm not sure how this would even be possible.

[marquisite]

Yeah it wouldn't be possible to do with software alone. A firmware update would be required to introduce a few more parameters.

The above example assumes the start/endIntensity refers to the twinkle/shimmer (as now) and new start/endIntensity2 parameters refers to the intensity(static) effect. Why this way? If my thinking is correct (which it may not be) then this would ensure the twinkle/shimmer effect functions properly with legacy firmware (without the newly added functionality) as I think the instructions would ignore the parameters?

More complex combo-effects could be used with this method - e.g. what about a 50% shimmer with a 25% on intensity effect (shimmer bwtween 25 and 75%)

[George Simmons]

Okay, here's your chance to educate me - how do you propose to have a single filament or diode plugged into a given given channel do more than one thing at the same time? Regardless of the time interval involved, isn't that filament either on (at some intensity between 1 and 100%) or off? How can it be both?

[MikeH]

George Simmons wrote:

Okay, here's your chance to educate me - how do you propose to have a single filament or diode plugged into a given given channel do more than one thing at the same time? Regardless of the time interval involved, isn't that filament either on (at some intensity between 1 and 100%) or off? How can it be both?

It's magic.

MikeH

[james campbell]

Jeff Millard wrote:

The problem I'm having with trying to cheat this effect is that a centisecond isn't enough resolution to divide a second into 60ths. It would require millisecond resolution. A rounded up 1/60th is about .016 seconds. A multiple of that is .032, so you can get close with .03 timings. My goal was to start with a fade that began at 100% then faded to around 40% over the full 8 seconds. Then, a second fadethat stays at 100% for 6 seconds and then drops to 80% in the last 2 seconds. Then alternate between the two every other timing. Lots of Ctrl C, move, Ctrl V, move, move, move, etc. It's close, but every second or so, it's trying to turn on at zero cross. Now it's evident why shimmer is a function of the controller rather than the software. It's much easier to synch that flashing to the zero cross in the hardware.

The attempt in in the second channel of the attachment, but I hadn't worked on the 80% finish yet.

Jeff

very clever,but I can see the timing issue needs to be double the timing marks

[Guest guest]

After researching into this some more, attempting to accomplish this in the software and the hardware, and realizing after much playing around, as George Simmons says, it isn't possible. Holy cow!, George, I think this is a first, where I actually agree with you on something. :shock:

To actually do this effect would require a special bulb that would have them same color (like an RGB LED for example), but all LEDs incorporated into the housing would all be the same color, but have seperate power leads for each LED or in the case of an incandescent bulb, two filaments all with a common to one side of all LEDs/filaments.

In other words you need an LED or an Incandescent bulb that would, in fact, be capable of connecting to 2 LOR Channels, using one for the full fade ups/downs and the other for the shimmer effect fade ups/downs. This is the only way I can see this function working. Afraid I got carried away and I *did* jump the gun on saying this feature is needed, as there is no way on this planet it can be done with a single element incandescent bulb or LED, maybe on some other one in the galaxy, just not on Earth for the moment, that a single element LED or Incandescent can accomplish this.

After going back and looking at LED's and Incandescent single element bulbs, just can't be done.

However, this could possibly be accomplished with LOW VOLTAGE (i.e. 12VDC) Automotive bulbs, like the dual filament INCANDESCENT ONLY amber or clear bulbs. (paint them what ever color you need with a stained glass window type paint).

You would also need an LOR DC controller to do the effects using these type bulbs as opposed to the AC controllers, like the CTB16PC. I'm guessing the DC controllers do the same type effects as the CTB16PC controllers, but only for DC applications, since I don't own any of the DC controllers, I can't say for certain. Although I do plan on getting one someday to play around with for automotive lightshow use.

[Arnoldc]

Wishful thinking I guess... Maybe next year when I have more time and money, I will add another string of lights where I am wanting this, and do it that way with 2 channels for 1 element so to speak.. Thanks everyone for helping.. Was a cool idea though..

[Guest guest]

Yes, it was a very cool idea. Just need dual filament bulbs/LED's to make it work.

[tonyjmartin]

I agree that it's not possible, given the the way that the firmware executes LOR protocol commands. As I understand it from a few years back, the pic chip receives commands for certain channels, then it fully executes them, unless it receives other commands for the same channels. But...

If the controllers are driven with DMX, which renders them "dumb", and they then receive all instructions at the DMX refresh rate instead of executing commands on their own, and the software is smart enough to layer the effects together, couldn't this effect be achieved? I'm not sure if that's how foreground/background effects work is S2, but if the fading shimmer/twinkle effect were above the percentage of the fading solid effect, it seems that there would be an oscillation that emerges from the steady lights, and then becomes more obvious as the steady lights fade out.

Not that I'm plugging DMX... :?

[marquisite]

George Simmons wrote:

Okay, here's your chance to educate me - how do you propose to have a single filament or diode plugged into a given given channel do more than one thing at the same time? Regardless of the time interval involved, isn't that filament either on (at some intensity between 1 and 100%) or off? How can it be both?

Lets consider this example:

The 'maximum' intensity of the twinkle would be 75% and the minimum 25%. Remove the intensity2 parameter and the maximum intensity is 50% and minimum 0% (which is possible right now).

Another way, which would cause a problem with controllers not using a new firmware revision would be to introduce completely new parameters.

This would do the same thing, except the parameters are more logical but it removes all backwards compatibility with the older firmware.

And then here's example 1 written in this more logical format:

This aims to have the "minimum intensity" of the twinkle start at 100 and reduce to 0. The "maximum intensity" of the twinkle translates to the only configurable intensity option in the software at present. If the minimum and maximum intensity are the same value then a psuedo "intensity(static)" effect would be created even though the type is set to twinkle.

The trick here is that both "effects" combine into one just like the Custom Effect can apply a fade to twinkle/shimmers "maximum intensity" - there is absolutely no reason why a filament/diode would need to be plugged into multiple channels to function. Providing this is possible in firmware of the controller.

A twinkle effect at 60% done in software at present would produce the following (although this includes the new parameters):

It is the minimum intensity of the twinkle/shimmer that is presently unsettable (fixed at 0% intensity) that would need to be made adjustable for smoother twinkle/shimmer transitions.

I hope I haven't confused you or anyone else... :shock:

I will attempt at generating an example with an animated gif or something equivilent to better explain how the effect could be done with a firmware upgrade.

[ainsworth]

It seems to me that what you need is a variable shimmer speed. I my mind a "solid" on light is simply a light that shimmers so fast it looks like it is solid on. So if LOR offered a variable shimmer speed, you would set the shimmer very fast and ramp the shimmer speed slower to get the effect you are looking for.

My simple mind can't get a handle on how to do this with twinkle. I think of twinkle as a "random" on/off function.

Bruce

[marquisite]

I have made a video showing twinkle and shimmer as now and with a digitally edited "transition" version along side.

See