12/3 or 14/3 to run 200' for power to each controller

[ChrisBMacon]

My shop is my only source for power but I have plenty of room. I need to run power about 200'. Is it O.K. to run a 12/3 or 14/3 200' to each controler feed? Should I stick with two 12/3. I can get 12/2 cheep but it seems I need the 12/3 or 14/3...not sure of the difference. Please advice before I buy several.

[Jim Saul]

Hi Chris, do you know how many amps you are pulling?
at that length, I'd stay with 10 amps per 14 gauge, and 15 per 12 gauge.

as for each side of the control1er needing it's own, it again comes down to the amps you are pulling, if you have nothing but LEDs you can probably use 1 14 gauge for everything, but if you have thousands of minilights, you are probably going to need 2 - 12 gauge.

there is a great meeter that you can now get a home depot that plugs in and tells you how many watts / amps you are using. it is called kill a watt

here is a link to it http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202196388&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=202196388&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D27X-_-202196388&locStoreNum=1950&marketID=234

[gizmomkr]

Jim has givven you a good start - as for the 14-2 v.s. 14/3. That is strictly an issue of grounding. the 3rd wire is used for ground. It does not actively carry power to anything.

If you have a showtime cnotroller, ground would be a good idea, but not strictly required.

I have PC Series controllers, and plastic cases and everything in my setup is 2 conductor. So, I dont really have anything to ground (but when I ran power to my new outlets, I still grounded the outlets.

There was another thread on grounding, just the other day - I dont believe the lower power hs on the pc kit is grounded (but in input does ground the dangle cordset.)

So, if you can get a sweet deal on 12 or 14 /2 wire - do it. IF you want to be extra safe (and you have metal enclosure) get 12 or 14 / 3. But the guage, and weather or not you run 1 or 2 feeds per controller is totally dependant on the amps or watts of your load.

[Donald Puryear]

If your referring to romex 12/2 or 12/3 both have a ground!. The first number indicates the gauge of the wire (12 gauge,14 gauge) the second number indicates the number of current carrying conductors.( /2 one white, one black....... /3 one white, one black, one red) 12/2 is for one circuit, 12/3 is for two circuits. If you use 12/3 or 14/3 make sure the wires our on opposite phases as not to overload the neutral. (This method does not work with GFCI breakers).

[TitusCarnathan]

Yes as donald said

xx/2 actually has 3 conductors the grounding conductor is not counted how ever the hot and the grounded (electricial term) or netural

xx/3 has 4 conductors in it the grounding which is normally bare and the other three are red black and white normally used for 240 volt applications or recepticals that are split.

I would run 12 guage it is always good to over size your wire

just remember

16 guage which is normally found on heavy duty cords I believe is 13 amps

14 guage is for 15 amps

12 guage is for 20 amps

10 guage is for 30 amp

[TitusCarnathan]

also if this cable is to be exposed outside make sure you use

UF cable also know as direct burrial cable it is grey no matter what guage it is also make sure it is sun light resistant do not absolutely do not use Romex cable outside

[kzaas]

I think it would also depend on which controllers you are planning on using on these circuits. If you are going to use the CTB16K controller, it is capable of 20 amps per side of the board. Initially you may not plan on using it in this capacity but you plan for the future. Run 12AWG to handle that 20Amps in the future instead of 14AWG now and then have to replace it later because you were too cheap to spend a couple extra dollars for the 12AWG.

If you are going to use the CTB16PC controllers, 14AWG is fine since that controller is only capable of 15Amps per side.

[TitusCarnathan]

just be sure that the breaker is either the same or has a lower amperage ratting than that of the wire

the receptical must be the same amperage of the circuit breaker

with the exception of 15 amp recepticals on a 20 amp breaker but the extra 50 cents for a 20 amp receptical is more worth the safe guard than the potential hazard

[Steven]

T110431 wrote:

also if this cable is to be exposed outside make sure you use UF cable also know as direct burrial cable

My dad used direct burial cable to power his workshop (200 feet from the house) and to the pump house. At the time (the 1970's), he thought it was the greatest innovation. It lasted about 30 years, then the gophers got it, and his opinion changed. After that, I helped him run conduit.

[TitusCarnathan]

I only use uf cable for above ground installations

for underground I would feel safer with conduit

because of fricition of the ground gophers rabbits etc.

[ChrisBMacon]

Thank you. I'm asking for gift cards so I can go ahead and buy the 100' runs for power this Christmas to be ready for at least 2 controllers. No, I don't have any yet, but starting with cords from the shop to the house front. Thanks for the input.

[Don Krasley]

People have given you good advice EXCEPT keep this in mind: ROMEX is for building wire. When you use building wire the package says 12-2 (or whatever) and does include a ground wire. If you plan on using rubber jacketed flexable cord IE: so, sow cord, they DO NOT include the grounding conductor so if you wanted to run a grounded cord, you need a 12-3 or whatever. You can use the romex for a temporary cord if you want, just know that the weather will take it's toll on it after awhile.

Another thing to keep in mind is after 100 feet you need to increase the size of your conductors to compensate for the voltage drop or leakage. 200 feet means if you need 20 amperes at the controller, you need #8 conductor! Thats a huge price to pay for electric. Just because the breaker says 20 amperes on it, you can only count on 80%. For a 20 amp circuit you don't want to go over 16 amperes for safety reasons. If this is the only way you can get power to the controllers you may want to consider running a conduit to a weatherproof sub panel. If you need 4 circuits 200 feet away and do need the 20 amperes because of using incandescent lights, your gonna spend a lot to get it there safely and reliably. If you run #12 conductors 200 feet, it's basically the same as running a #16 gauge wire rated at a maximum rating of 13 amperes BUT you still need to factor the 80% maximum. Your #16 amp cord is good for 10.4 amperes MAXIMUM! Anything else is a fire hazard and although it may look cool if it flares up at the right time, your local fire department may destroy your display!

I'm an electrician and I won't bull [Foul Language Used] you! I won't try to figure it out for you, 'l give you the answer straight and forward or tell you the truth! I know there are a lot of well meaning people on here who will tell you what they learned from others. But just because it works doesnt make it safe. Safety is no accident!

As for the killawatt thing, it's a waste of money! All UL approved lighting strings have to disclose the current used somewhere. It usually gives you the amperage use required. Mine says (mine are LED"S) the current used is .04 amperes. If I multiply .04 times my voltage which is 120 volts I get my wattage which is 4.8 watts. Likewise, it's divided by 120 if all you have is the wattage. Don't forget to multiply all wattage or amperage times .80 to get your maximum. It may sound like a big hassle to do the math but it will save you the added cost of a meter you will rarely use.
Any questions? PM me!

[ChrisBMacon]

Don, absolutly, I don't play around with power. I've already figured not to go over an 8 amp max per 8 channel feed. This being said, I'm looking at two runs of #12 (not romex)..... regular above ground extention cords.! Thanks for the input.

[Don Krasley]

Just make sure it's the 12-3 or whatever, or ask the sales person to make sure there is a ground wire in the wire you purchase. When you get wire like that you can not return it if they cut it for you unless they make the mistake.