Mega Tree Guy Wiring

[captainron19]

So last year my telescoping flagpole snapped (one of the upper sections) during a bad wind storm. I ordered a replacement section and want to make sure the same does not happen again.

Last year I had 3 guy wires from the top of the flagpole and I used those extra large neon pink tent stakes from Home Depot. I want to secure it better this year and looking for any input along with some answers to specific questions...

1. Best method for attaching guy wires to ground?
2. How many?
3. Should I guy wire the middle of the pole also or just the top portion?
4. When securing guy wires should they be very tight or should I leave a little "play" in the wire?
5. Is it ok to have 1 or 2 of the guy wires not go directly to the ground but instead go on less of an angle to say a tree trunk or something? or should I have them all go directly to the ground?


Don't want this to happen again....





Attached files

[jimswinder]

captainron19 wrote:

**These are just my opinions and in NOOO way am I an expert.**

1. Best method for attaching guy wires to ground?

**I would use those "coiled stakes"..like for securing a dog leash into the ground**

2. How many?

**3 should be plenty**

3. Should I guy wire the middle of the pole also or just the top portion?

**Yes..I am. Showed my brother how I was doing mine and the first thing he said was I needed guy wires in the middle also..to keep it from buckling like yours.**

4. When securing guy wires should they be very tight or should I leave a little "play" in the wire?

**I have always thought if there was any "play", then there as a possibility for the pole to "whip" the opposite way and possibly "snap" that wire.**


5. Is it ok to have 1 or 2 of the guy wires not go directly to the ground but instead go on less of an angle to say a tree trunk or something? or should I have them all go directly to the ground?

**One of mine is going horizontal to a telephone pole. The angle is in regards to physics (I beleive) just makes it more difficult to pull out the stake and in most cases, the only way to secure a guy wire.**


Don't want this to happen again....

**I don't want it to happen ONCE!!!!**

[captainron19]

Thanks - ideally I would like to try and see if there is any way to reinforce my upper sections of the flagpole - even thought of filling with that expanding foam stuff.

If I have another occurrence I am definitely going to metal pipe but it was a bad windstorm last year when it happened and it lasted the rest of the season not fully extended (about 14 feet) that is after my 6 hour adventure of untangling all of the lights that fell from the collapse

Was definitely not a good day when that happened and I wouldnt wish it on anyone.

[-klb-]

captainron19 wrote:

1. Best method for attaching guy wires to ground?

Depends on your soil. If it is fairly firm the dog lead screw in stakes are pretty good. If softer, you may want to investigate the screw in anchors for portable carports. Basically a steel shaft, with a single turn full disk blade at the bottom.. It screws in, digging its own hole, and then packing most of the dirt back on top of itself as it goes deeper. All the packed dirt on top of it provides a pretty good hold.

2. How many?

As I understand it, there is zero difference between 3 and 4. Higher numbers don't add much..

3. Should I guy wire the middle of the pole also or just the top portion?

The middle can't hurt, and can contribute significantly by preventing buckling

4. When securing guy wires should they be very tight or should I leave a little "play" in the wire?

You definitely want them tight. Loose fasteners fail because the parts start moving, build up some inertia, then hit the end of their play, and all that inertia gets converted into force. It tends to break things. You don't have to eliminate motion, you just want to eliminate free motion. You want to ensure that you don't have anything transitioning from free motion to constrained motion.

5. Is it ok to have 1 or 2 of the guy wires not go directly to the ground but instead go on less of an angle to say a tree trunk or something? or should I have them all go directly to the ground?

I think there is some value in symmetry, if for nothing els than when you have the same tension in all the cables, you know you have an even load, and have not imparted extra side loads on your flag pole. Of course, you also want to stay away from any branches that might move in the wind. I'm usually impressed when I see evidence of how much even some large branches of a tree really do move in wind load.

[jimswinder]

captainron19 wrote:

If I have another occurrence I am definitely going to metal pipe but it was a bad windstorm last year when it happened.

I am using 2 aluminum masts...upper is 2-1/4" x 10' and lower is 2-1/2" x 13'.

Upper 2-1/4" mast slips into the lower mast about 3' for a total mast length of 20'.

[captainron19]

jimswinder wrote:

captainron19 wrote:

If I have another occurrence I am definitely going to metal pipe but it was a bad windstorm last year when it happened.

I am using 2 aluminum masts...upper is 2-1/4" x 10' and lower is 2-1/2" x 13'.

Where do you pick something like that up? I am using the aluminum flagole from sunsetter and it works nicely.... I think the main problem is that there are 4 sections and each one is not receded enough into its lower section plus the upper sections are a narrow diameter.

[jimswinder]

captainron19 wrote:

Where do you pick something like that up? I am using the aluminum flagole from sunsetter and it works nicely.... I think the main problem is that there are 4 sections and each one is not receded enough into its lower section plus the upper sections are a narrow diameter.

There is a metal seller not far from me called Metal Shorts...but be warned, aluminum is not cheap. My two masts (for my Weber Tree) cost a little over $200... :X

I also bought a third aluminum mast for my Mega tree from a salvage company called Pacific Iron and Metal.

[Dr. Jones]

ron

I am using the same flagpole. I currently have 30 guy wires from the top. Why so many? each light strand is ty-rapped to a 3/16" piece of coated aircraft cable. I live in a canyon in so cal where we will typically get wind gusts in excess of 60mph during santa ana events. Only a couple of guys have ever pulled out. Although the star on is a different story.

[GS]

Dr. Jones wrote:

ron

I am using the same flagpole. I currently have 30 guy wires from the top. Why so many? each light strand is ty-rapped to a 3/16" piece of coated aircraft cable. I live in a canyon in so cal where we will typically get wind gusts in excess of 60mph during santa ana events. Only a couple of guys have ever pulled out. Although the star on is a different story.

This is an excellent method for building a mega tree, trick line works well too. Many secure points and a "no sag" look to the light strings. This also takes the stress off the light string wires to lessen the chance of string failures.

[David Grygierczyk]

oops duplicate post read next post.

[David Grygierczyk]

I poured a concrete pad 32 inches square and 2 feet thick. Before pouring the pad I inserted a welded square tubing frame (3 verticle tubes protrude above the concrete) that allows a residential antenna tower (3 pole) to be slid into the verticle tubes. Most of the year a windmill is sitting on the concrete pad. The tower replaces the windmill during the holiday season. This will be my first year using it and it is very sturdy with no guy wires. If I have a problem with any of the lights, I can climb the 25 foot tower to repair or replace them.

[Surfing4Dough]

David Grygierczyk wrote:

I poured a concrete pad 32 inches square and 2 feet thick. Before pouring the pad I inserted a welded square tubing frame (3 verticle tubes protrude above the concrete) that allows a residential antenna tower (3 pole) to be slid into the verticle tubes. Most of the year a windmill is sitting on the concrete pad. The tower replaces the windmill during the holiday season. This will be my first year using it and it is very sturdy with no guy wires. If I have a problem with any of the lights, I can climb the 25 foot tower to repair or replace them.

Before I finished reading your entire post, I initially thought you were going to win the craziest design award for having a 2' thick pad for just your megatree ("you never know when a bomb might be dropped on the display..."). Glad to hear that it serves some other purpose through the year.

[Dr. Jones]

David Grygierczyk wrote:

I poured a concrete pad 32 inches square and 2 feet thick. Before pouring the pad I inserted a welded square tubing frame (3 verticle tubes protrude above the concrete) that allows a residential antenna tower (3 pole) to be slid into the verticle tubes. Most of the year a windmill is sitting on the concrete pad. The tower replaces the windmill during the holiday season. This will be my first year using it and it is very sturdy with no guy wires. If I have a problem with any of the lights, I can climb the 25 foot tower to repair or replace them.

Thats almost the size of the footing I poured for the pole 2' dia 3' thick with rebar pounded out into the dirt and using fiber reinforced concrete

going to need a backhoe if I ever want to take it out

[captainron19]

Just an fyi as the tree is up

First I reduced my lights a bit... last year during the collapse I had 16 channels of red and green with each channel having 3 strands of minis and then one additional channel which was all color using home depot c9 LEDs (about 10 strands)

This year I did away with the color portion channel and moved those lights to my nearby shrubs

I also upped it to 4 guy wires and winds are hitting 25mph today and pole looks as solid as can be.... dont even see it moving a bit