Background Sequence in Show runs erratically

[matt_grooms]

Running S2 2.8.X (latest).

Built a show containing only four sequences:

1) Animation sequence (turns five channels ON), one minute long, placed in the background tab.

2,3,4 )musical sequences placed in the appropriate tab.

Startup and Shutdown tabs are empty.

When the show is run the background sequence runs for just under one second then the lights controlled by it go off and the first (shuffled) music sequence plays. A few seconds into the music sequence the lights controlled by the background sequence turn back on and remain on for the duration of the musical sequence however the lights go off at the end.

This happens for each musical sequence regardless of the order played, sequential, or shuffle.

If I remove the three musical sequences from the show (show now contains only the single background sequence) the background sequence lights come on immediately when the show starts and will stay on without interruption until the show schedule is interrupted.

Tested the above for over thirty minutes and the background lights stay on. This is the behavior I expected from an animation sequence placed in the background tab of a show.

If I go back and place even one musical sequence in the show, the goofy behavior of the background sequence returns.

The background animation does run mind you, it's just stopped/resumed DURING the first music sequence and is interrupted by each additional music sequence added to the show.

Am I doing something wrong or is this an S2 bug? Is this normal?

Is the only way to get uninterrupted background lighting (background animation sequence) by plugging those lights dirrectly into AC (not LOR controlled)?

[Don]

When running a background, you do not want the channels in the background sequence to appear in the musical sequences.

Why? Well, if the channels used for the background are in your musical sequences, then two sets of commands are being sent to them. Since you said the background runs, but shuts off as soon as the musical starts, I suspect that's the case.

Remove the channels used for your background sequences from your musical sequences, and give it another go.

[matt_grooms]

Sorry, I forgot to include that in the original outline.

The five channels used in hte background animation sequence are NEVER used in any of the three musical sequences.

I even considered making a copy of the default channel map (lss), saving under a different name, deleting those five channels then creating a musical sequence built on that channel map.

Haven't done so, but may in order to test.

It looks more like there is some sort of 'reset' that turns all channels off before the musical sequence starts?

[bob]

matt_grooms wrote:

Sorry, I forgot to include that in the original outline.

The five channels used in hte background animation sequence are NEVER used in any of the three musical sequences.

I even considered making a copy of the default channel map (lss), saving under a different name, deleting those five channels then creating a musical sequence built on that channel map.

Haven't done so, but may in order to test.

It looks more like there is some sort of 'reset' that turns all channels off before the musical sequence starts?

If the channels exist in the sequence, then they are used in the sequence, even if you didn't put any "on" effects or anything in them. They still have an effect: An "off" effect, which happens at the start of play. It sounds to me that this is likely what's happening. I would suggest removing those channels from the musical sequences completely (and removing any channels from the background sequence that should only be in the musical sequences, too).

If there's any question on this, the LOR Verifier can say for sure (as long as you have the show set up).

[matt_grooms]

Thanks Bob; I just realized Don was sending the same message, I just didn't catch it.

The inferred 'off' for channels present but not programmed matches my observations.

A newbie mistake on my part. I've been using the same 48 channel default channel map for all sequences regardless of type.

As soon as I can this evening I will modify the background sequence to only contain the five channels used for background. Likewise I will remove the five background channels from the three existing musical sequences and the default channel map for future musical sequences.

Thanks to both of you for catching my beginner's mistake!!

[Victory402]

Am I getting this? I cannot share channels between background animation and regular show musical sequences. Which means if I want to use the backgound tab I must have extra channels left over? No sharing?

[bob]

Victory402 wrote:

Am I getting this? I cannot share channels between background animation and regular show musical sequences. Which means if I want to use the backgound tab I must have extra channels left over? No sharing?

Yes, basically.

Speaking more generally, if you set up two different sequences to play at the same time, and you have the same channel in both sequences, they will both try to control that channel.

The results are unlikely to be what you're expecting, since, for example, one sequence might turn the channel off right after you're expecting the other to do something with that same channel.

The LOR Verifier can be used to check (among other things) whether you have your show set up this way or not.

[Victory402]

Thanks Bob, this is good info and will help me out this Christmas.

Vic

[matt_grooms]

Bob / Don,

You're right on the money (you knew that already:)) about channels shared between background animations and musical sequences.

Using separate (channel exclusive) channel maps for musical sequences and background animations fixed my problem.

Things worked so well, I figured I would add startup and shutdown sequences. They are musical sequences but use the five channel channel map I created for the background sequence.

They work, but a bit of interaction between the background sequence and the startup sequence has generated another must know question.

Question: Do startup sequences and shutdown sequences bracket the background sequences or do they overlap them?

In other words does the startup sequence(s) run BEFORE the background sequence(s) start and the shutdown sequence runs AFTER the background sequence stops?

Or Does the background sequence start first followed by the startup sequence (overlapping the background sequence). If true then I suppose it follows that the background sequence continues to run while the shutdown sequence runs.

I would have thought it went STARTUP - BACKGROUND - SHUTDOWN, but once again observed behavior of my lights seems to contradict this.

No biggie if this is unknown, I'm just trying to pin down the all the logic employed by the various sections of shows.

Thanks!

[Don]

It's been a few years since I used the Background section in my show (or any others, for that matter.) If memory serves (Bob/Dan, all, please correct) it's:

BACKGROUND - STARTUP - (SHOW) - SHUTDOWN

[matt_grooms]

Don, You've been right so far and that agrees with what I observed.

My startup sequences plays audio of a match striking burning, then my 'flame' lights come to life.

The background sequence is merely the 'flame' channels ON, 100% all the time.

The shutdown sequence is audio of a howling wind, the 'flame' channels flickering, etc., ending in a blackout.

In general it works OK, but with background coming on before startup the effect is as follows:

1) flames on 100% (undesired behavior)

2) flames off (as startup sequence initializes) (undesired behavior)

3) match strike audio

4) flames flickering to life.



If that's as bad as it get's, I'm doing OK.

Thanks for the help!

[Don]

After a few PM's, this is what was done.

No background.
Start-up - match strike audio, flames flickering to life (might add some 100% flames at the end.)
Animation - flames on 100%
Musical -
Shutdown - Regular Shutdown sequence. (Might want to lead that one with 'flames on 100%')

Animation and Musical files run at the same time. So, while your musical runs, so will your animation. (Some people think that the animation will run, then musical, but they run at the same time.)

[Steven]

Don wrote:

After a few PM's, this is what was done.

I'd like to add that if you don't want the "flames" to all "flicker" off at the same time when it switches from the "Startup" sequence to the "Animation" sequence, then un-check the box that says "Turn used channels off at the end of each sequence."