Holiqdaysoft Holiday lights Designer

[MJC7000]

Edit by LightORama Dan:

Michael, the owner of Holiday Lights Designer (HLD) original posted that he was going to deprecate (stop enhancing) the HLD interface to LOR. Because of a number of positive posts he has changed his mind and is now commited to supporting the HLD - LOR interface.

Dan

-------------------------- End of Edit -----------------


Hi all,
I've reviewed all the feedback and have come to the difficult conclusion to deprecate the Holiday Lights Designer interface to light-o-rama.

I added the interface almost 3 years ago. The software updates have been offered free ever since in the hopes the product would grow to meet the expectation of the user community. It's obvious based on the feedback in this and other forums that the built in LOR visualizer meets the needs of most LOR users. Some users have found alternatives to HLD as well.

I've concluded the best thing to do is direct all my efforts towards the needs of my main core set of users. They are the professional lighting installers with no interest in sequencing.

Michael-

[Keith Adams]

I have used it every year with LOR to get a better representation of what my show will look like except for this year as I am adding RGB floods and could not figure out a good way to represent those. I like the program.

[cyberfix]

I agree... I have used it too to create a very realistic representation of my light show. I purchased it under the pretense that it would be regularly updated per your feedback. I have waited patiently for an update and provided a lot of bug reports and suggestions. I even had my posts removed from your site after I responded to you asking which software I was considering to switch to if you did not continue to update. (This may have been due to forum crash, but it was odd other posts were recovered.) It is a shame that the product had so much potential and now you want to pull the plug on the very people that purchased your product.

It would at least be nice for you to release one last bug fix update with the LOR support built-in still. I don't understand what the point of removing the feature is since it already works and is a marketing/selling point.

[Randy]

I had to look up deprecate used in this context...From Wikipedia...

In computer software or authoring programs standards and documentation, the term deprecation is applied to software features that are superseded and should be avoided. Although deprecated features remain in the current version, their use may raise warning messages recommending alternative practices, and deprecation may indicate that the feature will be removed in the future. Features are deprecated—rather than being removed—in order to provide backward compatibility and give programmers who have used the feature time to bring their code into compliance with the new standard.

[HowardShank]

Michael,

I've sent a number of emails, a few forum posts and a couple of private messages on your forums (which are offline today) on HolidaySoft.com

As far as I know, HolidaySoft has only responded to one of my messages about crashes, updates, suggestions, etc. The support provided has been very limited at best in my opinion.

I love the product as it fits my needs very well. It has a farily steep learning curve, but once learned it is easy to utilize. My latest adventure has been with HLD corrupting it's own files and having to start over multiple times to fix it. I sent emails and posts, but never received any response from you regarding the problems. That was just the software itself and not the LOR interface.

Best of luck in future endeavors.

Regards,

Howard

[cyberfix]

MJC7000 wrote:

Hi all,
I've reviewed all the feedback and have come to the difficult conclusion to deprecate the Holiday Lights Designer interface to light-o-rama.

I've concluded the best thing to do is direct all my efforts towards the needs of my main core set of users. They are the professional lighting installers with no interest in sequencing.

Michael-

It seems like the feedback here is that you have people willing to help improve your product through feedback. Also, we haved used the product even without any regular support. Will you consider releasing a bug fix (less resource intensive) version soon, so that we can use it for this year's designs too? I think you will find more eager people if you just show a little support on your own forums too.

How about making it open source if you end up not supporting it any more? Just thought I would ask...

Thanks!

[David Barnett]

michael, I would like to add my .02 as well.

You have(had) a great product, with a lot of potential for future. I certainly echo the sentiments of the support side of things.

I feel this is a major contirbutor to folks giving up on HLD. As you can see from my posts. I was always a proponent of HLD, I still am and will always be so.

You have made up your mind....disappointing to say the least, but understand you need to do what is best for you.

Hopefully when you go back to the proff. decorating mkt, they'll find it as beneficial as the folks using LOR and HLD did as well.

I ask you as well, PLEASE release that version 4.5 or whatever fix you have coming out....so we'll all have a very stable and robust product to use for our layout.

As I've said before. When I did my first show, and saw it in playback oon HLD..and it was virtually identical for real; I was so stoked...it also kept me going during that very frustrating period.

Lot folks here, just were used to LOR visualizer...but perhaps if you had had better support and answered emails etc....that might have changed.

I believe us HLD user, only wanted to help you refine HLD to make it the best for all.

Sorry, if you misintepreted that as a slam on your product.

Most likely, your loyal customers(fans) won't hear from you on this forum. That's OK. You have pretty much told us all how you feel.

But, again. I echo others in asking if you would give strong consideration to finishing your 4.5 update you mentioned.

Also, I have made numerous requests form you on forums,PM's Emails to please put out some sort of changelog for us. So, we know what fixes,changes,enhancements were done in the release back in May.

Some documentation for the may and subsequennt release(s) would be great as well.

Again, speaking for myself. This is very disappointing news Michael.

That said, I to wish you the best in your future endeavors.

Best,

A loyal user of HLD since version 1

David

[PaulXmas]

MJC7000 wrote:

Hi all,
I've reviewed all the feedback and have come to the difficult conclusion to deprecate the Holiday Lights Designer interface to light-o-rama.

I added the interface almost 3 years ago. The software updates have been offered free ever since in the hopes the product would grow to meet the expectation of the user community. It's obvious based on the feedback in this and other forums that the built in LOR visualizer meets the needs of most LOR users. Some users have found alternatives to HLD as well.

I've concluded the best thing to do is direct all my efforts towards the needs of my main core set of users. They are the professional lighting installers with no interest in sequencing.

Michael-

Or your software does not live up to what we were lead to believe!
Sounds like people who bought your software wasted our money.

[RickWIlliams]

Michael,

The best of luck to you and your future, I’m sure your professional customers will appreciate you more than the little guy, who by the way is usually much more patient and forgiving on results than the professional business sector.

I personally never fully appreciated your software, and appreciated it less after paying for the full version. I figured out quickly that this was not a professional endeavor of yours and that you had no intention of supporting it as such, although the software had great potential. It’s good to know other companies out there are forging forward with their software, and actually respond to the community as well be a part of it, LightShow Pro is one great example.

Sorry for the harsh words, but you took money from my pocket, fully knowing that this software was in a bad place, hoping that maybe you could make it better; you actually had people believing that!

Again, the best of luck on your future endeavors.

[MJC7000]

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the feedback although not very helpful.

I hope you'll show more respect to others when writing posts in the future. The users in this forum deserve much better than this.

[MJC7000]

Hi All,
Due to an overwhelming response the HLD interface with LOR will continue to be part of HLD in current and future versions. This include new enhancements.

Thanks to everyone you responded!

[bwaldrep]

Am I the only one that is more confused now, then before?

I personally have tried the trail version a few months ago, and found it wasn't my cup of tea, however I then read the thread a month or so ago, about the lack of response from this company, with a response from the owner, stating they would resovle those response issues, which based on a few other post, never happened.

Now we see a post that they are removing, stopping support for this product for LOR users, and "direct all my efforts towards the needs of my main core set of users. They are the professional lighting installers with no interest in sequencing." , and then 48 hours later, it is all back to LOR users?

I'm very lost. I'm not sure what type of business relation ship this company has with LOR, but based on what I have seen here alone, this company doesn't seem very stable, or customer service oriented.

Just my view point

[gizmomkr]

I have nothing but my opinion to share - but hey, this is an OPEN forum, right ?

There are commitments made in the selling and advertising of the product, and people made a choice based on the present or promised features to purchase that product.

If the developer decides to pull the plug - HE HAD BETTER make sure whatever he promised WORKS - without bugs or glitches, or start writing refund checks.

Anything less than that would make the developer liable for false advertising. Any decent lawyer could get a judgment if they wanted to take it that far.

I personally think its a silly thing to take to that level, but someone else my feel quite different.

I DO THINK its just a lousy rotten thing to do - if you sold it and made a promise about the product - YOU NEED TO DELIVER. FIX THE BUGS, make it work the way it was sold / promised. AFTER thats done - discontinue lor support, whatever you want...


That was my "PC" response. Here is my NON P.C. addition :

Michael - WOULD YOU MAKE UP YOUR FREAKING MIND!? On the 19th - you made a verry clear statement saying LOR support would be discontinued. Days later its back in. If you cant even make a decision and stick with it, let alone write the code and support the product - how do you think that looks to potential customers ?

I looked at HLD, and thought it was REALLY NEAT, and a fair price - but then I read post after post complaining of poor support and bugs... and now this thread.

I dont think I would ever buy it at this point because I cant depend on you to follow through on anything.

[Keith Adams]

I am sure there are many people like myself who have used this program with little or no problems but people only post when there is a problem. I enjoy using it. I usually use the LOR visualizer to sequence and then use this to watch the end result to see if I did everything correctly. I haven't been able to use it much this year though due to having to sequence in another application until LOR includes rpm dmx dongle support in LOR. Right now I think it is the most realistic representaion of what my show actually looks like. Of course this doesn't help people who are having problems but I just want to let people know that not everyone is and you can always download the demo and see how it works for you.

[cyberfix]

MJC7000 wrote:

Hi All,
Due to an overwhelming response the HLD interface with LOR will continue to be part of HLD in current and future versions. This include new enhancements.

Thanks to everyone you responded!

I am glad that you can see through all of the negative comments to see that there is a group of us that like the potential in your product. We are glad to help, but please get back to supporting the product and focus on getting the train back on track.

The quickest ways to change the perception of a crowd are through actions. Unfortunately, this can be through positive actions (bug fixes) or negative actions (lack of support). I am all for helping as long as you are willing to support the product.

I look forward to any updates and plans in the near term and my lights flicker with anticipation!

Thanks!

[jbzeus]

I have HLD and have used it although not to it's full potential yet. I'm just starting into this blinky thing. It seems to work pretty well. A couple of glitches now and then but for the most part it works fine.

I would like to see more 3d lights available and some scaling to account for the vanishing point effect of an image.

[RickWIlliams]

MJC7000 wrote:

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the feedback although not very helpful.

I hope you'll show more respect to others when writing posts in the future. The users in this forum deserve much better than this.

Michael,

My feedback was not meant to be helpful; I don’t understand why you would even expect that?

You have publicly announced that you are pulling the plug on a product that was not delivered as stated, or supported as stated, but continue to accept payment for said product.

I am utterly speechless that you even made this statement against me “I hope you'll show more respect to others when writing posts in the future. The users in this forum deserve much better than this.” Do us all a favor and take a real good look in the mirror, and tell us what you see!

Again, Good luck on your endeavors.

[LightORamaDan]

As per my edit in the first post in this thread, the original topic has become somewhat moot. When Michael announced that he was going to deprecate support for the HLD-LOR interface I was taken by surprise like many of you, however I can understand that it was a difficult decision to make. He subsequently changed his mind and will now continue to support the HLD-LOR interface in current and future versions... I do not know how Michael's mind works but if it were me, that second post would have required a determined commitment.

Many of you were rightfully upset at the announcement but hopefully we can now relax and give Michael the chance to continue with the development of HLD and continued support for the HLD-LOR interface.

In this business (Sequenced Lighting), we have seen a number of software products come and go. The LOR software has the longest track record of continued support for any of the existing products. HLD has existed at least as long as LOR and I believe even longer. I know at LOR we are increasing the resources dedicated to our software and I hope that we have a long, continued relationship with HolidaySoft (HLD).

I believe that this thread has reached a conclusion and I will now close it.

Dan