LED Lights question

[Bob Wingert]

I've got the electrician coming out this weekend to add two new breakers and 4 electrical outlets. Originally I was going to have a lot more added but when I explained to him that I tied together 14 strands (M6) 70 count together, then hooked it up to the AMP meter and it read 0.07 amps. He said I don't even need that 2nd breaker. The lights were on 100%. Can this be possible or did my AMP meter go on vacation?

I will have a total of 14,000 lights, all LED. Based on that reading "if it was correct" I could in theory hook all these up to one outlet?? It just doesn't seem possible. Did I miss something here or is this a reality.

Thanks for the support of continuos dumb questions...

[bwaldrep]

That seems a bit low for 14 strands, I would think maybe 0.7 amps, verses 0.07 amps however LED's do use very little power. You can run hundreds of strands on one circuit. I wouldn't do that all on one outlet, but the same circuits wouldn't be an issue.

I know my 4 - 2 color, 8 segment arches, which are all LED, uses 2.5 amps, and that has 64 70ct strands.

0.04 amps per strand * 64 strands =2.56 amps

[Bruce Wallick]

Install GFCI outlets to keep yourself, your family and your audience safe. The Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter will quickly and automatically shut the outlet down if there's any current leakage. Like if someone is about to get electrocuted. It's especially important if the ground is wet.

[Steven]

LEDs typically draw 20-30mA, and there are usually 25 to 30 in series on a string (more for red or yellow). This means that a typical 100-bulb LED string draws a total of 100mA (25mA for each of the 4 sections of 25 bulbs).

If a 70-bulb string uses red, orange, or yellow LEDs, then it could have 35 bulbs in series for a total of about 50mA. 14 strands would then draw 700mA, or 0.7Amps, as bwaldrep said.

So you could run 14,000 LED bulbs on a single 15-amp socket.

Our multi-house, mostly-LED display runs 4 houses on 6 sockets total.

[Bob Wingert]

@ Bruce...Yes we will definitely have GFCI.

@ bwald/Steven, thanks for the breakdown! I'll have to look at that meter again tonight, I could have put the decimal in the wrong place. But either way, thats great news for me! I wont have to spend quite as much for my electrical work. My LED is purchase is already paying off :cool:

[Paul Roberson]

My mega tree last year was all 100 count LED strings. I had 24 red, 24 green, 24 blue, and 24 warm white. When fully on all 96 strings (9600 lights) pulled 7.42 amps.

I can almost run my entire display off of 3 15amp plugs if I wanted to. I choose not to have my entire display on 3 GFCIs though. I actually have 1 GFCI per display element.

[Max-Paul]

Ok, amp meters. Depending on the type, you have to keep certain things in mind. Typically most are clamp on type for measuring A.C. current draw. From the fluke units I use at work, a good number of them have a minimum current rating. Like one of them it is I believe 2 amps. Anything less and it may not read properly. So, check your clamp on amp meter and see if there is a minimum rating and if it is like mine, then you can make an adapter or buy one. If you want to make an adapter, you will need the following items. A male plug and a female plug. 1' white 12 ga wire, 1' 12 ga green wire, and about 10' of 12 ga black wire. Take the black wire and starting 6" from end, coil the wire so that it is about 3" diameter. Make 10 turns on the coil and leave about 6" tail. Using tape or wire ties and secure the coil. Install the wires to plug and female plug. Now plug this into the outlet and the lights to the female plug. Clamp the clamp on amp meter to the coil. What ever you read on the meter will be 10 times higher than actual. So 2 amps is actually .2 amps. This multiplier will allow you to use your clamp on amp meter on lower current circuits.

Although you wont have this problem with a current meter that uses leads that you somehow connect to the circuit.

I am wondering if the OP is using a digital clamp on amp meter?

[George Simmons]

Max-Paul wrote:

Ok, amp meters. Depending on the type, you have to keep certain things in mind. Typically most are clamp on type for measuring A.C. current draw. From the fluke units I use at work, a good number of them have a minimum current rating. Like one of them it is I believe 2 amps. Anything less and it may not read properly. So, check your clamp on amp meter and see if there is a minimum rating and if it is like mine, then you can make an adapter or buy one. If you want to make an adapter, you will need the following items. A male plug and a female plug. 1' white 12 ga wire, 1' 12 ga green wire, and about 10' of 12 ga black wire. Take the black wire and starting 6" from end, coil the wire so that it is about 3" diameter. Make 10 turns on the coil and leave about 6" tail. Using tape or wire ties and secure the coil. Install the wires to plug and female plug. Now plug this into the outlet and the lights to the female plug. Clamp the clamp on amp meter to the coil. What ever you read on the meter will be 10 times higher than actual. So 2 amps is actually .2 amps. This multiplier will allow you to use your clamp on amp meter on lower current circuits.

Although you wont have this problem with a current meter that uses leads that you somehow connect to the circuit.

I am wondering if the OP is using a digital clamp on amp meter?

I think it would just be easier for a newbie to go out and get a KillaWatt meter for 20 bucks. Sensitive down to 1 watt and .01 Amp. Definitely close enough for our purposes.

[Paul Roberson]

Kill A Watt meter is what I used to come up with the numbers I posted above.

[Max-Paul]

George, I fully agree with you. A Kill-A-Watt is a great device for the average person. Paul, sorry but when you posted it sounded like you used some form of amp meter. In my daily talk that would mean some form of Amp meter, not a watt meter like the Kill-A-Watt. Heck for my display I am seriously thinking of getting one of those for my display. It is a much easier to use device over my clamp on that I will use for trouble shooting say my electric hot water heater.

So, forgive me for the previous long post.

[Bob Wingert]

Max-Paul wrote:

I am wondering if the OP is using a digital clamp on amp meter?

What I'm using is what's been suggested here; Its an am/watt appliance plug in tester. Two switches, 1 for watts, 1 for amps. I did run the test again and it did register 0.7 amps NOT 0.07. I misplaced the decimal the 1st time. Someone above mentioned it should be 0.7 and there dead on. The watts were 84 this is just shy of 1000 m6 led's. I'm feeling more comfortable on my lowering the amount of breakers that we're planning on adding.....

[shfr26]

I'm feeling more comfortable on my lowering the amount of breakers that we're planning on adding.....

Why?? You will just have to add them next year when you buy more controllers and lights. Remember, it is an addiction and the only cure is to get more stuff.

[jim6918]

shfr26 wrote:

I'm feeling more comfortable on my lowering the amount of breakers that we're planning on adding.....

Why?? You will just have to add them next year when you buy more controllers and lights. Remember, it is an addiction and the only cure is to get more stuff.

There is a ton of truth in this statement. Last year I upgraded my house electrical from 100 amp to 200 amp and sectioned off a dedicated 100 amp subpanel for the LOR. According to "Code" I theoretically should only have had 5 20 amp circuits on that panel, but we stretched it to 6, since I already had my channels lined up and knew that no one panel would draw more than 12 amps. My entire display last year only maxed out at about 68 amps (I was still using a fair amount of incandescents) and now I wish I had added a larger subpanel, the cost would not have been significantly higher. The electrical utility was doing line work in the area and I was fortunate that they pulled a new 200 amp 2/0 line for free. I found out later that they would have pulled a 3/0 (>200 amps) line for free also. I am adding two controllers this year and will have to divert one of them to a regular house circuit. I have upgraded about 5000 mini incandescents with LED so that should help.

[Bob Wingert]

shfr26 wrote:

I'm feeling more comfortable on my lowering the amount of breakers that we're planning on adding.....

Why?? You will just have to add them next year when you buy more controllers and lights. Remember, it is an addiction and the only cure is to get more stuff.

Ohhhhh I'm aware of what lies for me next season. However, this year with money being tighter any savings is a good one... My original intentions was to include enough for next year too, with complete understanding that I will be expanding.

Point well taken tho..... :dude:

[George Simmons]

pokrplr wrote:

Ohhhhh I'm aware of what lies for me next season...

I doubt that. First year, we were initially debating between 32 and 48 channels. We wound up with 144. I bought 3000' of zip cord. Used it all and was scrounging for ext cords the last week of setup.

Last year, we were debating whether to add two or three more controllers. We wound up adding nine. I took the bull by the horns and bought 5000' of zip cord. The last week of setup I/we made three trips to Menards to get more extension cords.

This year we didn't even go through the pointless debate about how much to expand. So far, we've added another 9 controllers (four were 8-channel models) and two CCRs. This year I cut back to 3000' of zip cord and have been stocking up on pre-made extension cords all summer.

The point is: your plans are meaningless and very few of us spend the time to even consider taking your words seriously. We know that no matter how much you think you'll be expanding, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you're probably not even close. And that's one of the things that makes this so much fun!

[Bob Wingert]

George Simmons wrote:

pokrplr wrote:

Ohhhhh I'm aware of what lies for me next season...

I doubt that. First year, we were initially debating between 32 and 48 channels. We wound up with 144. I bought 3000' of zip cord. Used it all and was scrounging for ext cords the last week of setup.

Last year, we were debating whether to add two or three more controllers. We wound up adding nine. I took the bull by the horns and bought 5000' of zip cord. The last week of setup I/we made three trips to Menards to get more extension cords.

This year we didn't even go through the pointless debate about how much to expand. So far, we've added another 9 controllers (four were 8-channel models) and two CCRs. This year I cut back to 3000' of zip cord and have been stocking up on pre-made extension cords all summer.

The point is: your plans are meaningless and very few of us spend the time to even consider taking your words seriously. We know that no matter how much you think you'll be expanding, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you're probably not even close. And that's one of the things that makes this so much fun!

Your scaring me George! I don't need a 2nd mortgage @ this time

[Max-Paul]

What was that singers name of the late 80's? I am thinking Eric Palmer? He did a song that needs very little re-wording.

Might as well face it, your addicted to LOR.

Ha ha that will be one of those tunes in your head all day if you remember the song I am talking about. :cool:

[rstately]

I think it was Robert Palmer?

[jim6918]

pokrplr wrote:

George Simmons wrote:

pokrplr wrote:

Ohhhhh I'm aware of what lies for me next season...

I doubt that. First year, we were initially debating between 32 and 48 channels. We wound up with 144. I bought 3000' of zip cord. Used it all and was scrounging for ext cords the last week of setup.

Last year, we were debating whether to add two or three more controllers. We wound up adding nine. I took the bull by the horns and bought 5000' of zip cord. The last week of setup I/we made three trips to Menards to get more extension cords.

This year we didn't even go through the pointless debate about how much to expand. So far, we've added another 9 controllers (four were 8-channel models) and two CCRs. This year I cut back to 3000' of zip cord and have been stocking up on pre-made extension cords all summer.

The point is: your plans are meaningless and very few of us spend the time to even consider taking your words seriously. We know that no matter how much you think you'll be expanding, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong, but you're probably not even close. And that's one of the things that makes this so much fun!

Your scaring me George! I don't need a 2nd mortgage @ this time

2nd mortgages don't work since you need the wife's signature. You need to find a source of money that your wife won't easily find out about.

[Bob Wingert]

rstately wrote:

I think it was Robert Palmer?

Yep Robert Palmer, addicted to love or in this case "addicted to LOR"