ukoberon Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 OK - so i may have got carried away with the sale and have ordered 2 x CCR-II 12 Ribbon superstar tree kits - which by the time i pay the import duty and shipping to the UK is no small investment - so now i'm thinking i may have made a mistake and looking for some advice and guidance if anyone can help .... Previously i have worked only with CTB16PC controllers and have developed a good selection of the usual show tracks that i have built up over the last 7 years. I have around 90 channels in use in my shows - you can see an examples of our layout at www.brigleyhouse.co.uk My vision was to have 1 x CCR tree on each side of the front of our house - so 2 x 12 ribbon CCRs added into the current display. But now im worried that 24 ccrs will cause me problems on the network and stop my normal shows working. Also Im not sure how i add in CCR sequences into my existing sequences - my "plan" was to purchase in 2 or 3 key sequences that i can use in my existing tracks- but im now unsure what i need - My Software says i'm licenced for the Advanced Edition with SuperStar 2_CCR. - Do i need to upgrade this software to be able to control 24 CCRs (assuming that 2 x 12 will work on my LOR network) I know i should have done my research first - but my ego got hold of my credit card and the sale email landed........ and well....you guys know how it goes.... Any thoughts, guidance or feedback on what i need to do to Many Thanks Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 OK Rob, first off, you have NOT shot yourself in the foot. You will have a couple of hoops to jump through however. You will likely want to add at least one more LOR network, but that only requires an additional RS-485 adapter or two. I would STRONGLY suggest the high speed versions. Those are on sale right now and if you get in an order and reference the prior order number, LOR should be able to ship them with the other order which will save you some shipping cost. More on networking later. As for software, you CAN sequence your CCR trees in sequence editor, HOWEVER you would be making your life FAR harder than needed. Doing it in SuperStar or Pixel Editor would be FAR easier. Personally I use SuperStar and LOVE it! Pixel editor is available with your LOR software, but requires a license upgrade to Pro Level. SuperStar would require a SS license version upgrade - likely to the 24 CCR version. You may want to go for the 40 CCR version for reasons I'll get to shortly. If you intend to have the two trees display exactly the same thing (makes a lot of sense if the trees are visible from different directions (example a corner lot where one tree faces each of the two streets), you can duplicate the IDs of the CCRs of both trees and put them on the same network (or networks) and sequence it as only a single tree. You can also mirror the trees, so that they are opposite from each other simply by reversing the order of the CCRs on the second tree. This can work when both trees are visible - for example on either side of the lot. The only down side to this is you can't run text as it will be backwards on one tree.. The advantage of having the two trees duplicated is that you only need to sequence one tree. Since SuperStar has levels for 8 or 24 CCRs, this does not directly save you a license level. If you get the 24 CCR level license you could sequence both trees separately and fall within your license, or you could duplicate the two trees and still be able to sequence the rest of your show. If you sequence both trees separately, you would not be able to also sequence the rest of your show. That was why I mentioned the 40 CCR SuperStar license. I will point out that since you said you would likely purchase several sequences for this year, you could fairly easily just do the rest of your sequencing in SE as I assume you have done in the past. There is not a cost penalty to upgrading SS versions later vs going to a large license to start with, so you could get the 24 CRR version now for just the CCR trees, and upgrade it to 40 CCR version next year when you want to sequence everything in SuperStar. SuperStar will output it's data in either legacy format (puts it into a normal SE file format, or as an intensity file which would require upgrading your LOR license to Pro level and using enhanced LOR protocol. As for networking, the general rule of thumb used to be about 6 CCRs for a network running at 115K speed. Then 500K networking came out (requires the high speed RS-485 adapters), so that number went way up. If you have the two CCR trees duplicate each other, you would functionally be running only 12 CCRs so a single 500K network would have no problem with it. If you have the two CCR trees sequenced separately, you MAY be able to get away with them on a single network, but two networks would be better. One thing to keep in mind for your existing controllers. IF they are Gen3 controllers, they can also run at 500K speed, you could could one new 500K network for one CCR tree, and use the existing network (upgraded to 500K speed) for the second CCR tree and your existing controllers. If your existing controllers are not Gen3, they can't be used at 500K speed, so they would need to be on a separate network from the 500K network (or networks) that the CCR trees use. Multiple networks is not a big deal in case you are wondering. One more thing about networking. If you are using either SuperStar with it exporting intensity files, or Pixel Editor which always exports as intensity files, you MUST use enhanced LOR protocol, and all the controllers on that network MUST be Gen 3. Using enhanced protocol also has the advantage that you can put more channels onto a network than you can with a non-enhanced network. This page will advise what controllers will work with higher speeds and enhanced LOR protocol: http://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/ Have I confused you yet? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukoberon Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 20 minutes ago, k6ccc said: Have I confused you yet? OH MY..... ....Thank you for replying!! Ok so i need to re -read this a few times and get my head around it.... my controllers go back over 7years with some that are a couple of years old and two new ones ordered this time also.... im going to order a couple of the High speed connectors now..... Then come back and re-read again......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Based on your old controllers, I would plan on running three networks (assuming the two CCR trees are sequenced separately) - one for each CCR tree and one for the old controllers. If you duplicate unit numbers, you could get away with only one additional network. Fell free to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukoberon Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Hi Jim, Thanks for this - so i have ordered 2 x Highspeed 485 adaptors. I had intended for both trees to run the same sequence duplicated - so this would need 2 networks by what you have said . Is it just a case of plugging in the second 485 adaptor into a second USB on the laptop i use to drive the show - and can i run the original network on the current 115k network with the current 485 connector and have the new network running along side. ? The software upgrade is a bit of a jump ...another $170 eeek.. time to hide the card statements !!! Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Yep. Adding a second network is just as you said. Plug it in and let Windows do it's magic. Windows will assign it a serial port number which you can find in the device manager in Windows, or let the hardware utility search for it. Hiding the credit card statements from the wife is something many of us have to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.Y.R.G. Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, k6ccc said: Hiding the credit card statements from the wife is something many of us have to do... I can't hide the credit card statements because the wife is an accountant and pays ALL the bills. It makes life easy for me but I can't get away with surprise purchases....DOH! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukoberon Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 Thanks Jim - calling it a night over here for now as its getting late - will sleep on it and am sure will have more questions - thanks for your help so far !. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukoberon Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Hi Jim, OK - just tried upgrading my license from 2 to 24 CCR at a cost of $170..... but it failed..... looking at my current licence status it says LOR Feature Level: Advanced SuperStar Feature Level: 4_CCR Max Version: 3.14.* Do i need to spend more to go to "Pro"on my license ( on top of the $2,000 im already spending! :-o ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Lambert Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Ukoberon you can use the advanced version for unlimited channels, but since you are planning to use the enhanced network you will need the pro version. As for the superstar upgrade from 2 to 24 . If you don't use superstar or if the sequences you are planning to purchase are not in a the superstar format you do not need to upgrade. I had 12000 channels last year & I don't use superstar. With the pro version you will be able to use the pixel editor on your ccr tress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 As Darryl said, you can use Pixel Editor with an upgrade to LOR Pro license level. I had made the assumption that you wanted to use SuperStar because you already had a small licence for it. Personally I played with PE during the beta testing last year, and never could figure it out. Matt even tried to help me out, and I still could never figure out to take the pretty / cool effect I created in the effects generator and actually apply that to some pixels. I will point out that during the beta, there was very little docs on PE, so my answer may be to RTFM now. However I love SuperStar and see little reason to learn something different. One more thing. To use an enhanced network (optional with SuperStar, required for Pixel Editor), you must upgrade to LOR software version 4. The good news is that either a SS upgrade or LOR license level upgrade will also function as a renewal so you can update to current LOR software version. The other good news is that there are a lot of new features in S4. Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukoberon Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 Ok - so i have upgraded to V4 and superstar. Im currently working y way through Superstar videos to learn all about it.. Thanks for help so far. Its great to be able to ask questions and have this resource to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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