Pixcon in garage, power supply in the yard... Will it work?

[saveglamis]

I am making my first RGB mega tree, I bought 16 sets of 100 pixel 2811 strings from Ray Wu. Each string draws 5.2 amps. I would like to keep the pixcon in the garage, run the data on cat5 and place a 12v power supply, fuse block w/ 7.5 amp fuse per string and ground bus in a cg1500 enclosure at base of the tree. Will there be a problem running just the data on 24 gauge, while everything else is on 18 and running the controller on a different power supply?

thanks,

Eric

Edited July 19, 2016 by saveglamis
Grammar

[Mr. P]

Many questions need to answered here:

What PS and are you only using one?

So the lights will be powered directly through the PS at the base of the tree and not coming from the controller?

So it will be like power injecting the entire tree?

How far is the distance from the tree to the controller for the data run?

Are you planning on null pixels for the data run?

[plasmadrive]

From your description it seems you have the power taken care of, other than you may need more than one supply.  

Your only question seems to be about the data.  if you haven't purchased the Pixcon yet you may consider buying one of the "long Range" type controller that send out RS485 and then converts back to single ended at the tree with smaller boards. 

If you do have the Pixcon already, there are several ways to do what you want.  I would personally use Pixel Extenders but you will need a set for every 2 outputs you want to use. It looks like (from the data sheet) that it will output DMX, but then you have to decode at the pixels, so that won't really gain you anything. 

You may be far better off just putting the Pixcon at the tree as well and running a single CAT5e cable to it for the E1.31.   In a CGxxxx case mounted properly you should be OK.  I have had other brand controllers out on my lawn in GCxxxx boxes for three years with no issue.  I mount them up off the ground on stakes or on the props. 

Good luck

 

[k6ccc]

I'm with Plasma on this one - put the Pixcon at the tree. There are pretty substantial distance limitations on the data between the Pixcon and the first pixel. There are ways around that as already mentioned, but why? A single Cat-5 cable is far easier to deal with.

Yes, what you are suggesting could be made to work. The ground (or if you prefer to call it the power - voltage) needs to be tied together for both the Pixcon and the pixels.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

[saveglamis]

2 hours ago, Mr. P said:

Many questions need to answered here:

What PS and are you only using one?  my original plan was to use 1 360w PS putting everything in one box. After receiving pixels and playing with them I quickly realized it would not be adequate. 

So the lights will be powered directly through the PS at the base of the tree and not coming from the controller? Exactly.

So it will be like power injecting the entire tree? Yes

How far is the distance from the tree to the controller for the data run? 35 ft, 8 conductors, per cat5. 2 cat5's for 16 universes

Are you planning on null pixels for the data run? Question I never thought to ask, glad I posted this.

 

[saveglamis]

2 hours ago, plasmadrive said:

From your description it seems you have the power taken care of, other than you may need more than one supply.  

Your only question seems to be about the data.  if you haven't purchased the Pixcon yet you may consider buying one of the "long Range" type controller that send out RS485 and then converts back to single ended at the tree with smaller boards. Purchased 2 last year's summer sale, played around a little bit, decided to jump in head first this year  

If you do have the Pixcon already, there are several ways to do what you want.  I would personally use Pixel Extenders but you will need a set for every 2 outputs you want to use. It looks like (from the data sheet) that it will output DMX, but then you have to decode at the pixels, so that won't really gain you anything. 

You may be far better off just putting the Pixcon at the tree as well and running a single CAT5e cable to it for the E1.31.   In a CGxxxx case mounted properly you should be OK.  I have had other brand controllers out on my lawn in GCxxxx boxes for three years with no issue.  I mount them up off the ground on stakes or on the props.  I was trying to avoid extra clutter from boxes. running 2 cat5's instead of 1 wouldn't be a big deal  

Good luck

 

 

[saveglamis]

53 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

I'm with Plasma on this one - put the Pixcon at the tree. There are pretty substantial distance limitations on the data between the Pixcon and the first pixel. There are ways around that as already mentioned, but why? A single Cat-5 cable is far easier to deal with. I'm thinking I may have to.

Yes, what you are suggesting could be made to work. The ground (or if you prefer to call it the power - voltage) needs to be tied together for both the Pixcon and the pixels. Common ground is needed, noted.

Sent from my Droid Turbo via Tapatalk, so blame any typos or spelling errors on Android

 

[k6ccc]

Take a look at how I built my pixel tree.  The web page below gives quite a bit of detail of how I did it.  If you have questions that the web page does not answer, feel free to ask.  The E682 controller is mounted behind the star at the top of the tree.  The power supply has been mounted under the eves a few feet away for the past 4 year.  When  I do my tree and star rebuild (now pushed off until 2017), I will need more power and plan on mounting the power supplies on the tree, so I will only have an AC power cord and a cat-5 cable going to the tree.

http://newburghlights.org/pixel_tree.html

 

[plasmadrive]

On 7/19/2016 at 7:20 AM, saveglamis said:

 

It would be a lot more than just two CAT5e cables..

[saveglamis]

4 pair UTP cat5 has 8 conductors, each universe gets its own conductor for data, 2 cat5 will give me 16. Using ws2811 so I don't need clock. If I go with a 12 pair, I can bond a few pairs for common negative, that makes just the one cable. 

[saxon]

3 minutes ago, saveglamis said:

4 pair UTP cat5 has 8 conductors, each universe gets its own conductor for data, 2 cat5 will give me 16. Using ws2811 so I don't need clock. If I go with a 12 pair, I can bond a few pairs for common negative, that makes just the one cable. 

Hemet? I used to live in Hemet/Sanjacinto for 10 years....I understand why you want to lock your controller in the garage.

[Vince4xmas]

What is the distance limitation on the data line between the Pixcon and the first pixel? What is the maximum distance I can run without having to add a null pixel?

 

Thanks

 

[k6ccc]

3 minutes ago, saveglamis said:

4 pair UTP cat5 has 8 conductors, each universe gets its own conductor for data, 2 cat5 will give me 16. Using ws2811 so I don't need clock. If I go with a 12 pair, I can bond a few pairs for common negative, that makes just the one cable. 

Uh, no.  First of all a little terminology point.  It's not one wire per universe, but rather one wire per output (which may or may not be one universe).  Not trying to be picky, but avoid future confusion.  Technically the outputs are serial peripheral interface (SPI).

I would HIGHLY recommend against trying to run multiple SPI streams in a single cable for any substantial distance - and particularly two SPI streams in a single twisted pair.  You would be asking for for crosstalk problems unless the length is VERY short (likely no more than a couple feet).  You said it would be 35 feet from the controller to the first pixel.  That is marginal under the best of conditions, and you are suggesting doing it under far from ideal conditions.  That means you would really need to use pixel extenders for every pair of SPI outputs.  If you really insist on using network cable for the SPI outputs from the garage to the tree, I would suggest three differences.  First, for each SPI output, use a twisted pair for each stream, not a single wire.  The twists will help fight crosstalk.  Second is to use Cat-6 cable rather than Cat-5.  Cat-6 has better separation between the pairs.  Third, run the data ground in the same cables as the data.  If you look at the end of a Cat-6 cable, the four pairs are in the shape of a cross (usually with a plastic separator to keep them oriented that way).  Put two data circuits on opposite pairs, and put two grounds on the other two pairs.  For example: top pair = data 1, right pair = ground, bottom pair = data 2, left pair = ground.  That will improve the separation.  Now you are only getting two SPI outputs per Cat-6 cable, but it improves the chances of it working.

The better solution is what I suggested before - put the controller at the tree.  Then you really are only running one network cable to the controller.

BTW, I see you are in Hemet.  If you feel like driving to Glendora (about an hour from you), I will happily teach  you a bunch of this stuff and show you what I have done.  This kind of stuff relates to what I do for a living, so I do at least sort of know what I'm talking about here...

 

[k6ccc]

11 minutes ago, Vince4xmas said:

What is the distance limitation on the data line between the Pixcon and the first pixel? What is the maximum distance I can run without having to add a null pixel?

 

 

There was a thread here on a forum (I think it was here) about that a year or two ago that went into a LOT of detail.  Depends on the specific equipment, so without quoting that thread, I can only give a general answer.  For WS2811 pixels, figure something like 20 - 25 feet.  Yes, some combinations of controllers, pixels, and wiring WILL go longer, so that this as a general answer.  The longest I'm running is about three feet.

 

[Ebuechner]

If for some reason you have to run it remotely this might be a solution. http://www.advateklights.com/shop/mantis-pixel-mapping/40-pixlite-16-controller.html

[saveglamis]

Output vs universe - noted. 

The rest of the info about cross talk, lengths, etc. that is the reason I asked now before putting everything together. Thank you very much. Usually I am a last minute type of person, but this year I am determined to be prepared! Time to order a few more enclosures before wife puts a hold on my credit card.

Eric