E1.31 and DMX Newbie question

[Mike H]

Sorry I tried searching for this but the search feature in this forum doesn't seem to be working since it can't even find one message that includes DMX.

Anyway, if anyone can help me with just a couple basic questions I would appreciate it.

I have a Pixcon16 controller (and a second one on order).  I want to be able to still use my regular LOR CTB16PC, CTB16D, and CCR controllers.  So I have the following questions if I want to switch completely from a normal LOR network to a E1.31 network and just needing a little help in understanding a E1.31/DMX type of networks:

• Do I need to get individual E1.31 to DMX converters to feed each of the CTB16PC, CTB16D and CCR controllers if I want to go all DMX?
  • I know the Pixcon16 can be fed directly with the E1.31 which I've played with that and got it to work.  Since it has 5 DMX bridge output ports on it would that mean that each DMX port could then be fed to only a single CTB16x/CCR controller?
  • And if that's true, I'm assuming that Daisy chaining CTB16x/CCR controllers can't be done if using DMX?  Or can you still daisy chain them?

I will be checking the firmware of all my units and hopefully they will be able to be updated if needed to support DMX.

Anyway, hopefully someone can give help me on these questions so I'll know if there is something else I need to get to convert my system for next year.

Mike

[k6ccc]

When operating DMX, you are using an RS-485 serial connection just like when using LOR networking.  DMX spec says you can have 32 devices on a network.  Each controller ID determines what the starting DMX address is.  See the docs to determine what the conversion is.  So you could have 32 controllers on each DMX output from the Pixcon.

 

[THAT-NEW-GUY]

You can update almost all of them I think. I just updated my gen1 to run on dmx. Also the gen 1 controllers you have to number different. John storms has great videos on this

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[Mike H]

Thanks both for the information.  That helps greatly.  So hopefully this isn't going to be that hard.  Have more playing around to do now.

Thanks,

[Dennis Laff]

You don't have to switch your lor boxes to dmx to use them with the pixcon in E1-31.  Leave the pixcon on one network and lor boxes on another network 

[Mike H]

I was thinking of that but I had to go to a lot of work to run just one network cable from inside my basement to an outside junction box.  So I really didn't want to run a second cable outside.  The only option is that I did purchase another set of the ELL's so I possibly could let one transmit from inside the house to an outside one setting up the TX/RX at one of the basement windows.  So that's one possibility.  (The basement windows are crankout windows so I can't really run cables out the window openings).  So that was the main reason I was thinking of going with the E1.3 just to be able to still go with the single network cable I have already setup.  Thanks for the idea though, that will probably be my course of action if I run into any issues in changing.

[THAT-NEW-GUY]

Also the LOR controllers use a different wiring for dmx. Most dmx devices use the orange pair on the cat5 cable. LOR uses the blue pair. So you would have to make a crossover cable to the first controller of the pixcon. All controllers after that use standard cat5 to chain them together

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[Mike H]

Thanks, I had seen discussion on how to make that cross over cable and was wondering how exactly it would be used so that helps.

 

One more question to understand what I'm reading.

I can only run a maximum of 510 channels off of each DMX port from the PixCon16 board.  Correct?

I've got a few CCR's but I'm trying to figure out exactly how many channels they use.  In looking at the manual that came with them, it describes the DMX addresses for each LOR device but it's only skipping 16 channels between Unit ID's.  I would think that the CCR's would be using a total of 150 channels (or 157 including the 2 Macro Effect Channels).  Does anyone know what's true for CCR's in relationship to channels used for each one?

[Dennis Laff]

Mike H. If your going to run your lor ac 16 channel controllers in DMX mode from the pixcon dmx ports no crossover cable is needed you just move a jumper. Check he pixcon manual 

[THAT-NEW-GUY]

510 channel output per port is correct. Also Dennis is correct. I'm thinking of my pixlite. In dmx mode a ccr is 450 dmx channels each bulb is 3 channels R G B one channel per color

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[larryk5]

A CCR is 50 pixels, each pixel uses 3 channels, thus a CCR uses 150 channels, plus the 7 macro channels! 

[THAT-NEW-GUY]

Omg I'm done today my head is up my ###

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[EmmienLightFan]

On 4/21/2016 at 1:51 PM, THAT-NEW-GUY said:

510 channel output per port is correct. Also Dennis is correct. I'm thinking of my pixlite. In dmx mode a ccr is 450 dmx channels each bulb is 3 channels R G B one channel per color

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Actually, there are 512 channels in a DMX universe.

The extra 2 are often forgotten about when using RGB, as you can't fit an RGB channel into it, but when using other lights they are often used.

 

You can fit three CCRs and 2 LOR controllers on one network, but I would split it and try not to have more than 2 CCRs on each network.

[EmmienLightFan]

On 4/21/2016 at 2:23 AM, Dennis Laff said:

Mike H. If your going to run your lor ac 16 channel controllers in DMX mode from the pixcon dmx ports no crossover cable is needed you just move a jumper. Check he pixcon manual 

Yes. LOR use a different pinout for their protocol and this is the same for DMX.

 

As the Pixcon is an LOR product, it uses the LOR pinout, but like the CMB24D, there are jumpers to change to the standard DMX over cat5 pinout.

 

I am surprised LOR didn't make the Pixcon able to send out LOR data, as both are RS485. Maybe it wouldn't be possible to do things such as triggers and firmware upgrades, but I am sure it is possible.

 

On 4/17/2016 at 8:21 PM, Mike H said:

Since it has 5 DMX bridge output ports on it

It only has four outputs.

Two of them are linked together, as they are the LOR protocol inputs and outputs.

It is best not to use both at the same time, especially with long wire runs.

[Mike H]

Thanks all for the information from everyone.  All that helps a lot.

[k6ccc]

23 minutes ago, EmmienLightFan said:

I am surprised LOR didn't make the Pixcon able to send out LOR data, as both are RS485. Maybe it wouldn't be possible to do things such as triggers and firmware upgrades, but I am sure it is possible.

I can tell you why that would be impossible.  Remember that DMX is a very dumb protocol.  It tells what the level of a channel (or channels) are to be right now.  That's the only thing it knows.  That data gets refreshed about 45 times per second.  The LOR protocol is quite intelligent and for example can issue commands such as: For controller 1, channel 3, start a fade from 86% to 10% over the next 3.2 seconds.  There is no way that the PixCon (when receiving DMX data over E1.31) could anticipate based on the instantaneous value of 86% at the start of the fade, that the commands for the next 3.2 seconds would result in a fade to 10%, and therefore could not re-create a LOR protocol command for events that had not happened yet.

And before you ask the situation where the Pixcon is receiving LOR data, there would be very little point in having it re-generate LOR protocol data, since the downstream controllers could simply be daisy chained like we normally do.  The only exception to that would be if the PixCon were receiving LOR data at 1,000Kbps which none of the other LOR controllers can handle at this time.

 

[EmmienLightFan]

3 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

I can tell you why that would be impossible.  Remember that DMX is a very dumb protocol.  It tells what the level of a channel (or channels) are to be right now.  That's the only thing it knows.  That data gets refreshed about 45 times per second.  The LOR protocol is quite intelligent and for example can issue commands such as: For controller 1, channel 3, start a fade from 86% to 10% over the next 3.2 seconds.  There is no way that the PixCon (when receiving DMX data over E1.31) could anticipate based on the instantaneous value of 86% at the start of the fade, that the commands for the next 3.2 seconds would result in a fade to 10%, and therefore could not re-create a LOR protocol command for events that had not happened yet.

This is true. I had not thought about that.

 

However, wouldn't it be possible to do it like FPP drives LOR devices, and output just the intensities several times a second the way DMX does?

Although this is fairly pointless, as you could just use DMX, it may be easier for newbies and those who have not started using DMX.

[JHT8987]

 

19 hours ago, EmmienLightFan said:

Actually, there are 512 channels in a DMX universe.

The extra 2 are often forgotten about when using RGB, as you can't fit an RGB channel into it, but when using other lights they are often used.

 

You can fit three CCRs and 2 LOR controllers on one network, but I would split it and try not to have more than 2 CCRs on each network.

 

How do you use the other two channels on  the pixcon?  I just started to play with the pixcon and only see 510 channels.

[EmmienLightFan]

5 hours ago, JHT8987 said:

 

 

How do you use the other two channels on  the pixcon?  I just started to play with the pixcon and only see 510 channels.

Don't use them for pixels. You end up with either the blue from the 171st pixel missing, or wrapping round to the next universe.

 

Only use them for the DMX512 outputs.

 

Where are you looking that they are not appearing?

[JHT8987]

3 hours ago, EmmienLightFan said:

Don't use them for pixels. You end up with either the blue from the 171st pixel missing, or wrapping round to the next universe.

 

Only use them for the DMX512 outputs.

 

Where are you looking that they are not appearing?

 

In the configuration page of the pixcon16.