Seeking ServoDog opinions

[wbaker4]

I am looking to add some animatronics to my display for 2015 and was looking to use Light-o-rama's ServoDog.

 

I have looked around the various forums and there are posts that report issues using ServoDog such as settings not being retained, confusing documentation.

 

For those that have been able to use it, does it work as expected?  What issues did you have?

 

Are there any other servo controllers that are compatible with LOR that could be used?

 

Thanks,

 

Walt

[ArlenAhl]

Hi Mitch,

I had several posts about troubles with the Servo Dog not maintaining settings. The primary issues I had were corrected by working with LOR support and they replaced my Servo Dogs.

 

I have still had some issues, but I don't believe they are with the Servo Dogs, I think they are with the servos, the CAT6 extenders I use, or just my inexperience in how I built the animatronics (it was my first year0.

 

One thing I will say that I was told and did not follow.....   Use the BEST servos you can, right at the start. I spent more money and wasted a lot of time replacing servos several times because I tried to get by with least expensive way.  And the way I designed my animatronics, it was a real pain to replace the mouth servos, and I think caused other possible issues having to dis-assemble and re-assemble them several times.

 

Here's a link to a youtube of my animatronics in action (although the heads didn't completely work all the time as designed. and I had issue with the small elves).  http://youtu.be/NfyPxzgu4HM

 

I'd be glad to share more info if you are interested.

 

Arlen Ahl

 

[wbaker4]

Thanks for the info.   Nice job! 

[sax]

I really liked your animatronics. I too am wanting to get into this and have been looking for several weeks (almost a full year actually). My main interest is Halloween and talking skulls, witches, wolves or whatever monster I can think of. But anything for Halloween will always eventually carry over to Christmas for me. Many things to animate like elves, reindeer, snowmen, the grinch as well as the Clauses.

A couple questions,

What servos did you finally settle on? I know that head and mouth servos are typically different sizes. But what did you use for all your motions?

Where do you get your puppet heads? Please tell me there is a basic sculpture out there somewhere and I don't have to create and build my own puppet heads. Please????????

Lastly, did you only use LOR to program them? I know there are some other solutions that integrate with LOR out there that make programming speaking easier. I don't know how necessary it is to use those instead of LOR.

Thanks,

Sax

[ArlenAhl]

Sax,

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond.  We have been fighting severe Colds/Flu here for over a week.

 

Servos - I initially used PowerHD servos from Pololu.com. While they initially seemed to fit the need, they didn't last at all. I then tried some Futaba - They were ok, but The best one's I found were HiTek.  The cost was higher that PowerHD and about the same as Futaba, but seemed to operate much better.  I still used some PowerHD where they didn't fail (at the time - although during the holidays they did fail!!! and part of my program didn't work as planned because of it.)  The 3 main characters, (old elf, Santa and Mrs Claus) all used 3 servos each. I built a head rotate(LR) and tilt (up/dwn) assembly that was direct driven for the LR movement using PowerHD high torque 1501MG servos. In mid-November I replaced 1 of these with a HiTek HS-5485HB that has worked much better.

The PowerHD 1501 cost $19.95. The HiTek HS-5485HB cost $34.99.  Other PowerHD I also were: HD-1600A, HD1160A,1705MG,1711MG and a couple micro servos as test items.  The Futabas I tried were S3114 ($14.99) and S3115 ($21.99).  I used the  While not all of the PowerHD nor the Futaba's failed, I wish I would have found and used compatible HiTek's everywhere. Probably would have spent the same or less and been much more reliable. 

The head up/dwn was controlled by the PowerHD 1600A 's  or PowerHD 1711MG's and seemed to work with few replacements.  One note - PowerHD servos seem to be much noisier than Futaba or HiTek during operation. Futaba was worse than the HiTek but not too bad.  The mouth movements initially used PowerHD HD-1600A's, then 1711MG and 1705MG's. Again, I wish I had found similar HiTek models to use.

 

Heads - The heads I used were standard Styrofoam wig display heads available at most hobby stores. I cut out the mouth section and carved area large enough to fit a small assembly for the servo to control the mouth.

 

Programming - Yes, I used only the LOR sequence editor to control the servos through manual programming. It wasn't too hard actually. Took no more time that synchronizing lights to music!  I know there is a system out that allows tracking your head movements to control the animatronics head movements for under $100 - TrackSkull from MonkeyBasic.com. Recommended by Mike Ziemkowski ( Experienced and I trust his judgement) but after all the servo cost, I didn't want to spend the $ this year.

 

Any other questions feel free to ask.

 

Arlen

Edited December 29, 2014 by ArlenAhl

[a31ford]

Arlen, your first year >? simply awesome !!! Great info as well.

 

Keep up the great work !

Greg

[sax]

Thanks so much for the information. Super helpful.

For your mouths, after you cut out the space for the servo, are you using the same styrofoam for the lower mouth?

And do you use masks?

I can't seem to visualize how you made your puppets heads look so good. I can't beleive it is just the styrofoam head...

[ArlenAhl]

Thanks for the comments!

 

Sax,

Yes, I used a part of the same piece I cut out of the mouth for the lower mouth/lip.  I did not use masks.  Just a lot of time making the heads. As an example - they old elf -  I started with a mainquin toddler's body and added the Styrofoam head (I used the same head for Mr & Mrs Claus. Mrs Claus' head I added shape as noted in the end of this description.)

 

Do any shaping to the head if needed first. Then I used a liquid I got at the hobby store from DecoArt called MAGIKOTT (or decoart.com), a surface coating for painting Styrofoam. You brush 2 or 3 coats of this on and the Styrofoam won't just absorb paint. Then you paint the surface a flesh color using acrylic paint.

 

(I tried to post pictures here but haven't figured out how - sorry

so I posted on FlikR - https://www.flikr.com /photos/130436217@N06/     )

 

Paint blemishes, shadows, wrinkles etc. Do the eyes with detail.  Use hair and spirit gum from a costume/party shop to attach hair for the beard, eyebrows and hair. Finish by gluing false eyelashes. This is all a whole separate process I had to learn from Internet searches apart from the animatronics. Styrofoam is and isn't easy to work with, it is messy and gets everywhere when cutting! You can buy foam cutters with saw type blades etc, but I found a very sharp, long (~ 6"), narrow bladed kitchen knife worked best for me. You can also add to the shape of the head using the spray construction foam that expands, and is used to fill cracks, and holes works well. Spray a larger than need amount on the head and shape it with a disposable plastic putty knife to add shape and volume to the head. Let it dry. Fill any holes with more spray foam. Let dry. Then do final shaping with a drum sander or Dremmel type tool. Do all l this BEFORE using the MAGIKOTT. Repeat as needed.  Be Careful and wear latex or plastic gloves as this stuff is oily, goo-ey and sticks to your skin and hard to remove, (I had to sand some of it off my hands!!!)    I tried to use some stuff called Ecoflex 00-30 from Smooth-On to create a skin for Mrs Claus face and neck. It is liquid rubber with flesh color added that stretches. (The elf and Santa had hair to cover the mouth and hide the appearance of the cutout mouth.) It worked well except her mouth servo died twice after I had applied the stuff and to take out the servo and replace it, it tore the rubber skin. Also the skin added   tension to the mouth movement, that made the servo have to work harder.  I ended up with some of it as the neck covering, but very little on the mouth like I had planned.  Maybe I'll improve that for next year.   Try and try again! Always moving forward and getting better!

Arlen

Edited January 1, 2015 by ArlenAhl

[Eric walls]

Arien,

I'm really impressed and you're project is very inspiring! I just don't have much artistic ability so I'm not sure if thisis something I could do.

How do you power thewholething? Do you use 1 power supply to the servo dog, and then the servos get their power from that? What voltage and amps would a person need to do something like this?

[sax]

Thanks Arlen.

Sounds like a tinkerers dream. Lots of labor involved.

I bought several of the foam heads a couple years ago from an after Halloween sale for 10cents each. Now I wish I bought more, they didn't have any this year. I bought them to store my masks I use on groundbreakers....but turns out I just use the gallon jug that holds them on the prop...so the styrofoam heads are spare.

Now I can use them for this project. I want to make a talking witch for my first animatronic. I would like to have lighted moving eyes, mouth and head rotate. The eyes can move the same. So 3 servos...one for eyes, one for mouth and one for head. A witch should be more forgiving as blemishes, pock marks, moles are great ways to hide any imperfections I have making the face.

I could make it harder with eyelids that move but that is only a dream I think as that would involve better craftsmanship than I have.

If it goes easy enough then maybe I can add a skeleton head. I think someone or some retail store sells 3 axis skulls that require just adding the servos. I haven't found any yet but I hear they exist according to the Halloween forums. All their links provided went to closed sites....it is an old forum post. So I am researching this in my spare time.

So now that the year is over and you are an expert, what would you do different?

I was looking at adding the dio boards instead of the servo dog. It didn't go on sale so I passed on it this past summer. I want the relay board that you can attach to the dio and get dual use...servo and relay control from one board.

But I think I will grab a servo dog hopefully at the spring sale but probably the summer sale as it was not included in last years spring sale. Put the dio on the want list.

After success from Halloween then look at Christmas.

[ArlenAhl]

Eric,

I used 1 power supply to run each servo dog. 12v 1.5A.  Then the servo dog powered the servos.  There were 7 servos on 1 SD and 6 on the other.  For a while I thought I was having issues with now enough power to the servos and added local power at Mrs Claus and the old Elf, but it turned out is was an issue with the servo dogs (what originally started this thread). After that I went back to 1 supply at each SD and it worked great.  My biggest problem overall I think was I was using several servos to direct drive movements, instead of applying mechanical advantage through gears, levers or linkages..

 

Actually you don't have to be as artistic as one would imagine to pull this off!

 

Sax - did you try going to  triaxialskulllabs.com ?  I might try that next year. Or even build this type of movement assembly into the Styrofoam heads.  Might work better..... 

[ArlenAhl]

Sax,

Things I would do differently include, using mechanical advantage everywhere and no direct drive servos.  Also incorporating a triaxial skull design for better movement and either build all that inside a hollowed out Styrofoam head, or use a skull ( http:// skeleton-factory.com/skulls ) with a mask or a skull and use the SmoothOn rubber skin.

 

I'd like to incorporate some body movement an maybe eye movement too. Also some inter-activity for passers-by to 'get involoved' and assist in controlling the show. I've seen this done with the light synchronization before but not with the animatronics.

 

Maybe more and smaller animatronics. Some real simple stuff and some more complex stuff.

 

I'm far from an expert in the animatronics like some others that are on this forum, but I was pleased with the results for my first year!

 

I guess we'll have to see how much time and money I have available this next year!

 

Happy decorating and to everyone a happy and healthy year in 2015!

Arlen

[wbaker4]

Arlen,

 

Have you or anyone ever considered using or have used Urethane Foam - the stuff that is in two parts that you mix together?  I have been looking at the 8 LB stuff that can be cut, carved, etc.

 

I am looking to create a few characters and am considering using this to create the rough shapes.  It might be cost effective for the size characters I am planning on making.

[Eric walls]

So sorry about all my typos. I really appreciate the information. This is a totally new and different area but I think it could be fun. I saw the servo city site and they have waterproof servos. Since all it does is rain here all winter if I tried something like this I think I'd have to try the waterproof servos.

So you just hook the power supply to the board then? I noticed the board has a dial to adjust voltage for the aervos? It seems like most run on about 6 volts? Is that right? So just hook up a volt meter and adjust the output with the 2 dials?

Just having a few makeshift heads moving would be a great addition To my display. I definitely would need to start simple.

[ArlenAhl]

I'm in Colorado and we have snow and cold and wind. In fact it snowed 8" on Christmas night with about 40mph winds and another 4-6" since then. My old elf was covered in snow, but kept on working just fine!  I did not use the waterproof servos.

 

There are adjustments on the board to adjust the power output, but they are adjusted when you get the board for 6v. That's what all the servos I have seen or used run on  (~4.8 to 6v) so I don't believe you should need to make any adjustments.   Yeah, read the SD manual when you get it, but it is fairy straight forward. There's always this forum and LOR support has been great if you have any issues.

 

Would love to see what you come up with!

Arlen

[Eric walls]

Well I haven't really thought about it now. Saw your post so now it has me thinking. The only reason I mentioned the waterproof servos is because we just get so much rain and I wouldn't want the servos to get fried.

I'm wondering if I could make something generic so I could use a mask for Halloween and something different for Christmas with the same head.

[Denny]

Off topic as far as the servo dog, but since we are talking about techniques for making the heads, has anyone investigated the use of a 3D printer to make the heads?  Blue Point Engineering is making some parts, such as the eyes, but haven't seen anything about the head shell itself.  I know printers have come down in price, but don't know if the 3D printers available to the hobbyist would even be capable of the entire head.

[Eric walls]

I was thinking of how I could do a singinging snowman. You could make a think paper mâché head but how to make it waterproof for outside would be the problem. Maybe some sort of laytex or marine varnish?

I think a 3d printer would be useful to make brackets and such for the servo parts, or even house the servo dog itself.

Lots of ideas in my head but no concrete plans.