Understanding E1.31 & SanDevices

[CLD Kevin]

I’ve been reading and reading on E1.31 (about 5 hrs). First, all the topics and I’m looking for is spread over which seems like hundreds of post and wish there was a sticky to cover this. Although I’ve been using LOR and DMX for several years, E1.31 is brand new….never touch nor read anything on it. I think I’ve found my answers to most of my questions but a few couldn’t find, so want to confirm what I found just to make sure I’m on the correct path.

 

I have both E6804 & E682. Below were questions towards the E6804, but some should apply to the E682.

 

Power:

·   5V or 12V

·   30A Max power

·   V+, Grd, Data for 3-wire lights….Clk not needed (ex: 2811)

·   V+. Gnd, Data, Clk for 4-wire lights (ex: 2801)

 

 

Universes:

·  7 Universes in Multi-cast

·  12 Universes Uni-Cast

·  510 Pixels or 3 Universes or 1530 Channels per output  x 4 (2040 pixels or 6144 Channels total for E6804)

 

 

So to my questions…

·  Didn’t see how to setup multi SanDevices. Assuming that each device IP address is different? So if Device#1 is 192.168.1.206, would I make Device#3 192.168.1.207 or whatever IP address I choose?

·  Can I use different protocols/adapters/dongles at the same time? E1.31, RS485, DMX (Enttec), ect. For example, E1.31 for SanDevice, RS485 for LOR Controllers and DMX for Moving heads or 3-ch DMX modules. I understand I can use the E1.31 for DMX devices and LOR controllers too, but if I already have these things built to work in a single DMX universe using an Enttec Pro, I don’t want to rebuild anything. Don’t think it would hurt to leave as-is.

·   Network Switch: Needed if using multi SanDevices. Will 10/100 be okay or use one that has 10/100/1000 capabilities?

·   Max distance from PC to SanDevice? 300ft?

·    I read the manual at least 10X so I completely understand and “think” I have it. No questions on this at this time. A little confusing to understand (because I don’t know it) but seems straight forward. Lots of options.

http://sandevices.com/documents/SanDevices_E6804_Pixel_Controller_Operating_Manual.pdf

 

 

Setting up S3

·   Edit>Preferences>Network Preference. DMX tab>Advance button. Click in the Adapter/IP Address box (universe you want to assign) and choose Multicast? Or Specific?

·   Do I assign each Universe and IP? So if I’m using an (2) E6801 and assigning Universes 1-6 for Device#1 and 9-12 for Device#2, do I assign and IP for 1-6 and 9-12?

·   Listening port 5568

 

 

I think that’s it for now. 

 

 

 

Kevin

[dgtlpro]

Kevin...to answer a couple of your questions...each San device will need a different IP address. 10/100 switch will work, the Ethernet modules on San devices are only 10/100.

You can run multiple protocols...last season I ran 1 LOR network, 2 DMX universes, and e1.31 without any problems. On my DMX I used an LOR adapter and an ENTEC pro compatible adapter.

Multicast will be an easier setup but will only allow 7 universes...unicast will allow 12...that is on an e682, the one I'm using...when I set my IP addresses I set them in 10's...XXX.XXX.XXX.010, XXX.XXX.XXX.020...it just made it easier to know which board they were.

I also have a 6804 but did not use it in my show last season...just for testing.

Edited April 24, 2014 by dgtlpro

[Ron Boyd]

Kevin, I sent you a PM and I think I covered most of the questions you posted.

 

"Setting up S3

· Edit>Preferences>Network Preference. DMX tab>Advance button. Click in the Adapter/IP Address box (universe you want to assign) and choose Multicast? Or Specific?

· Do I assign each Universe and IP? So if I’m using an (2) E6801 and assigning Universes 1-6 for Device#1 and 9-12 for Device#2, do I assign and IP for 1-6 and 9-12?

· Listening port 5568"

 

Each universe, if using Unicast, will need the IP of the controller that the data will be going to.

For example: IP address of 6804 may be 192.168.1.101 and using 6 universes. After each Universe, you'll need to type in the IP address of that controller, 1 time on each of universes 1-6.

The next controller IP, will be inserted to each Universe that's used on that controller, in your example 9-12. You can use 7-10 if you desire, just name the unused universes on the first board to something like 100, 101, 102, etc.

 

As dgtlpro said above, a 10/100 switch will work just fine. Also, like his post, I used a LOR HS dongle for My CCPs last year, but I used a 6 port, E1.31 to DMX bridge for all of my RGB stuff http://www.diyledexpress.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=22&zenid=6ad9b04039e6505817b7b1197affd27e

This allowed me to use Basic RGB controllers as well as Non E1.31 compliant pixel controllers, all off of my E1.31 data stream. I have an ENTEC pro compatible dongle but I use it for testing.

 

I think with dgtlpro's post along with mine and the pm I sent, you should have enough info to get it done. If not, please don't hesitate to contact me again. I'll be happy to help if I can. If not, I know someone who is more versed in these boards and I'll give him a call.

[CLD Kevin]

I'm not sure I completely understand the LOR setup. I choose "Specific" so I can type in the IP of the controller? So lets say E6804 is 192.168.1.10 and using for Universe 1-6 and E682 is 192.168.1.20 for Universe 7-10.

Is this how I set up the Network Pref for E1.31?

 

Universe 1: 192.168.1.10

Universe 2: 192.168.1.10

to

Universe 6: 192.168.1.10

 

Universe 7: 192.168.1.20

to

Universe 10: 192.168.1.20

 

 

Also, what is the max distance from the PC to the controller? Placement will play a factor is distance is short.

[Ron Boyd]

I'm not sure I completely understand the LOR setup. I choose "Specific" so I can type in the IP of the controller? So lets say E6804 is 192.168.1.10 and using for Universe 1-6 and E682 is 192.168.1.20 for Universe 7-10.

Is this how I set up the Network Pref for E1.31?

 

Universe 1: 192.168.1.10

Universe 2: 192.168.1.10

to

Universe 6: 192.168.1.10

 

Universe 7: 192.168.1.20

to

Universe 10: 192.168.1.20

 

 

Also, what is the max distance from the PC to the controller? Placement will play a factor is distance is short.

 

Yes, That is the way to set up the Universes.

 

I don't recall the distance from PC to controller, but since you're using Cat5e or Cat6, it's quite a long way, 400 feet or so if I recall.

The distance from the controller will vary, but the rule of thumb is 12-15 feet. I've heard of up to 30 feet but also heard, less than 15 feet.

I try to stay within 12-15 feet from controller to pixels.

 

Another rule of thumb, is to place the controller and power supply as close to the element as possible, ie, inside of a pixel tree, or on the matrix frame, etc.

 

Ron

[Max-Paul]

Ron,

Remember that this is Ethernet, so max distance on a wire is 300 feet (actually 100 meters). Now note I said wire. So from PC to a switch is 300 feet and then 300 feet from switch to controller. So I think actually 200 meters is about the limit. Might be able to put two switches in there, but start having to wonder if the latency would cause problems?

[Aaron Maue]

Ron,

Remember that this is Ethernet, so max distance on a wire is 300 feet (actually 100 meters). Now note I said wire. So from PC to a switch is 300 feet and then 300 feet from switch to controller. So I think actually 200 meters is about the limit. Might be able to put two switches in there, but start having to wonder if the latency would cause problems?

I didn't do any empirical testing, but I had two switches in series in my setup last year and didn't detect any visible latency. About 150' from PC to 1st switch and another 100' from 1st switch to 2nd switch. 3 e682s hanging off 2nd switch, 2 @ about 2' away and one at about 50'.

[NEWTOUR]

Really good information guys. Thanks for starting the post Kevin.

[Ron Boyd]

Max and Aaron,

 

Thanks for clarifying the distances. I couldn't remember for sure what the distance was.

[bobschm]

Don't forget, you can extend controller to pixel data distance with null pixels.

 

Just maintain enough power voltage as well.

[CLD Kevin]

Thanks all for the responses. Every bit helps. I'm going to start building and testing soon.

Thanks Ron for the PM.

[Max-Paul]

Aaron,

 

Thanks for the real world experiences. I know at some point you might start having problems with the delay going through each switch. But thanks for letting us know that you did not see any problem with going through 2 switch.

[dgrant]

I've got a related question please. Is it possible to do the E1.31 via a wireless TCPIP? In my case, for this coming year, I'm doing a pixel tree using Joshua P12S/X. I can't run a Cat5e/6 wire to it directly and the line of sight distance will be about 40 feet. I'm contemplating using a mutlifunction wireless device with multiple ports but doing and adding another wifi router that's dedicated to the LOR system as opposed to the Wifi for the house. Ideas, thoughts or has someone done this and it worked?

[Max-Paul]

No I have not done this with Christmas lights. But I have done this with a IP security camera out at 600 yrds and a laptop back at the bench. Used this to spot my shots on a target. So what you want to do is set it up in Bridging mode. I dont know what you are calling a multifunction wireless device, what is this?

[dgrant]

There are multifunction wireless devices that will also work as print servers which are bi-directional. My thought was one of these on one end plus a wireless access point on the other, directly connected to the E1.31 output. I might be able to connect to the P12S/X. I'm not seeing a real decent reviews of these wireless devices though.

[dgrant]

To add, I do have an older wireless access point by Linksys, that I'll see about using for the idea. I'll order one of the multifunction wireless devices and give it a try then post the results and whatever hoops I had to jump through to make it work, if I can make it work. It should as simply put, its just TCPIP communication but firewalls, AV's and etc getting in the way...who knows. I'll try.

[CLD Kevin]

dgrant,

 

Google "E1.31 Wireless" and your search will show several post on the subject not only here but at other forums.Looks like not only possible, but has been done. 

 

 

Here are a few:

 

http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/21787-successful-test-of-an-e131-pixel-controller-running-wireless/

 

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?19100-E1-31-Wireless

 

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?31851-Easiest-way-to-get-Xlights-via-e1-31-wireless-to-E682

[Aaron Maue]

Deleted. Better info was posted, above, than I had.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Aaron Maue

[plasmadrive]

dgrant,

 

Google "E1.31 Wireless" and your search will show several post on the subject not only here but at other forums.Looks like not only possible, but has been done. 

 

 

Here are a few:

 

http://forums.lightorama.com/index.php?/topic/21787-successful-test-of-an-e131-pixel-controller-running-wireless/

 

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?19100-E1-31-Wireless

 

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?31851-Easiest-way-to-get-Xlights-via-e1-31-wireless-to-E682

I ran the Plasma Icicles last year via a wireless bridge.  I think I paid about $75 total for both sides.  I had 8 universes and used two e6804 to run them.  I also used an ELL network for the rest of my display.  All worked great once they were set up.

[zman]

I ran the Plasma Icicles last year via a wireless bridge.  I think I paid about $75 total for both sides.  I had 8 universes and used two e6804 to run them.  I also used an ELL network for the rest of my display.  All worked great once they were set up.

Which Wireless Bridge did you use, and where the universes full up, (you used all 4K channels)?

Edited April 29, 2014 by zman