30,000 bulb mega tree

[robm]

Looking at a 20' Mega Tree with 300 strands of 100 bulb strings. 64 channels. 20 channels each for red, clear, green. Looked at LED but truthfully they are still too expensive and the colors are just not as bright.

Looking at ChristmasLightShows mega crank up tree. With a ton of Guy points.

Is that over kill? I want this tree to blow the socks off.

Looks like it will be a 102 amps, about 27amps per controller.

Any thoughts? To big, to small. etc..

[Santas Helper]

_{If the tree don't blow the socks off, the electric bill will.}

_{Make sure your crank, cable, pullies and pole can handle the weight.}

_{You would be better off going with 16 channels to save on cost of controllers IMHO.}

Edited September 25, 2012 by Santas Helper

[DownTown]

Rob - Take a look at my megas at http://lightsonchelsea.home.comcast.net. Each tree has 14400 lights on it, 3600 lights in each of four colors. They are about 18' tall. Based on that info, You should be able to get an idea of how yours would look with a couple more feet of height and more bulbs... They will be very light dense and quite an attraction.

Good Luck!

D.T.

[robm]

Santa -- I wsa going to use 48 channels but amps to high. Tree will pull about 105 amps. I am not using LED just becuase they are still so darn expensive and I really do not like the look of them. Plus 3 times the price. So my 4 controllers will be running around 27 amps each.

Thanks DT. I want this show to just blow away the viewers. Your looks great, how many channels on your two megas?

Rob

[DownTown]

Santa -- I wsa going to use 48 channels but amps to high. Tree will pull about 105 amps. I am not using LED just becuase they are still so darn expensive and I really do not like the look of them. Plus 3 times the price. So my 4 controllers will be running around 27 amps each.

Thanks DT. I want this show to just blow away the viewers. Your looks great, how many channels on your two megas?

Rob

Rob -

Each of my trees were 48 channels, twelve channels x four colors... times two trees - 96 channels for the two of them. I found that dividing the tree into 12 segments around leant itself to either 4/4 or 3/4 music. It is also intuitive to program, since we are all so familiar with the 12 divisions on a clock face. Made visualizing in my mind's eye a breeze.

D.T.

[BillyT]

Where are you getting 300 strands from? I mean how do you plan on laying it out? How long are the strands you are looking at?

As far as the colors of LED, seriously, incandescent lights do not compare with the purity of color and overall intensity of LEDs. I had 4800 incans on my tree two years ago and switched to LED's last year, the difference was incredible.

Knowing what I do now, to what I did a few years ago, I would spend less on LED's and add more each year. Doesn't make sense to spend money on old lights that are not only power hogs, but at times can be challenging to maintain.

[robm]

Where are you getting 300 strands from? I mean how do you plan on laying it out? How long are the strands you are looking at?

As far as the colors of LED, seriously, incandescent lights do not compare with the purity of color and overall intensity of LEDs. I had 4800 incans on my tree two years ago and switched to LED's last year, the difference was incredible.

Knowing what I do now, to what I did a few years ago, I would spend less on LED's and add more each year. Doesn't make sense to spend money on old lights that are not only power hogs, but at times can be challenging to maintain.

Strands are 21', Tree will be about 19' 6". Bottom 12" of tree cannot be seen from ground.

The lights I have tried were from 1000Bulbs and some others I got at a local store. They are OK, LED does not compare to Incandescent. and the type of feel I am tring to produce.

The show is a commerical show and will only run 10 minutes out of an hour, so burn time is pretty low.

The biggest issue is the startup cost. All LED's I have found are almost 3 times as expensive as incandescent. Yes they use a 1/10th of elecetric but inital cost compared to operational savings for me is not there.

If this was my house and I wanted it to look OK the first year, better the second and killer the third I would use LED, but it has to be killer year 1 and still hit budget which we all know I am alrady over !

Year two and above as we slowly add things we will do LED. But the inital few Power Items will be incandesent. I am running some other LEDs on different items, just not the big boy.

If you have any video of your LED tree I would love to see it, I like comparing # bulbs, etc and always looking for ideas.

[BillyT]

You can see a video from last year on my website, but I wasn't happy with the way they turned out, so I only produced one.

I can't imagine how you would get 300 strands of light connected at the top of the tree. With 16 hooks and 4 strands on each, it's starts getting pretty tight at the top. That's 64 strands, just double it to over 120 and it's gonna get crazy up there. It is going to be a lot of weight too.

I have the crank from christmaslightshow, Darryl's products in my opinion are all great.

Good luck on this project!

BTW, DownTown, your display looks fantastic!

Edited September 25, 2012 by BillyTRichVa

[Max-Paul]

If a guy buys the crankup from Christmaslightshow. More than likely he will also buy the hook head too. I am not at home right now to count the actual number of hooks But I am thinking it is at least 20 hooks. Still, lots of wires for the number of hooks and going to agree, crowded. I am a firm believer in making all of the electrical connections back on the ground (hoop). Keeps the controllers down low for servicing and anything becomes loose I wont have to crank down the hook head and have a mess to wade through.

[GaryM]

Wow..this sounds like quite the tree.

I'm trying to sort out how you are doing it, tell me if I am missing something:

1. 3 colors, 20 channels per color, 300 strands of 100ct, so 5 strands (i.e,, 500 bulbs) per channel? Assuming 4 channels reserved for a tree topper? Or just left open and no tree topper?

2. If the 5 string/channel assumption is correct, then roughly 1.5A per channels, 12A per 8 channel bank, 24A per controller. (assumes .33A per 100 ct incan string). That seems to match with your 27A assumption, depending on what you are using for your per string current draw .

Do I have that right, or am I completely missing it?

Curious how you are stringing the strands...are you doing 5 strings per channel and then taking them up and back down a few times?

Would also agree with BillyTRrichVA, managing things at the hookhead end sounds like it could be a challenge.

Good luck..can't wait to see the finished product.

[Guest wbottomley]

300 strands on a small mega-tree with little support will yield a disastrous show. I know for a fact that 96 mini incans were heavy enough. Add 204 more, and we're talking lots of weight. Plus... with the possibility of icing/freezing rain occurs, double that weight every quarter inch of glaze. I did the math and were surprised.

Edited September 25, 2012 by wbottomley

[Santas Helper]

I agree with MP and Wbottomley.

They make, 8, 16 and 24 strand hookheads.

But I'm just going to throw this out there. I don't think these designs were made for 300 strands. The crank, cable, pullies and all.

I had a hookhead locally made to handle alot and when I got to 144 strands, it got crowded in a hurry. I was trying for 192.

Then if there is ice or snow in the mix, that's something that will compound the weight.

Just my thoughts.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Santas Helper

[JeffF]

300 strands on a small mega-tree with little support will yield a disastrous show. I know for a fact that 96 mini incans were heavy enough. Add 204 more, and we're talking lots of weight. Plus... with the possibility of icing/freezing rain occurs, double that weight every quarter inch of glaze. I did the math and were surprised.

Agreed. I've pulled up 96 strands by hand the last two years and they are *very* heavy. This year I'm graduating to a hand winch which will help a lot. But I couldn't imagine pulling 192 strands up let alone 300! Good luck with whatever you do.

[Guest wbottomley]

I forgot to mention, I'm still pulling up 96 strands, but all of them are LED's. Next year, it will only be 24 - smart pixels.

[Santas Helper]

But I couldn't imagine pulling 192 strands up

Jeffery,

Thought I better add, when I mentioned my 144 trying for 192, I'm using a bucket lift and attaching about a dozen at a time. Reason being is weight but also, I don't want that many strands getting tangled as they go up. So I take up 12 strands and attach them to the base, take up 12 more and so on. I prefer to take my time and not create any more work than has to be.

All mine are LED if that makes any difference in weight...

I would add a pic but this thread says: You can upload up to 3.7K of files (Max. single file size: 3.7K) which the pic would be the size of a needle point. Not sure what's going on here with the LOR forum attachment thing.

[Jerry]

Looking at a 20' Mega Tree with 300 strands of 100 bulb strings. 64 channels. 20 channels each for red, clear, green. Looked at LED but truthfully they are still too expensive and the colors are just not as bright.

Looking at ChristmasLightShows mega crank up tree. With a ton of Guy points.

Is that over kill? I want this tree to blow the socks off.

Looks like it will be a 102 amps, about 27amps per controller.

Any thoughts? To big, to small. etc..

Have you done this before or is this your first year ? If not ,you are lookin at one HUGH mess to put up and take down. With 300 strands ,,,near the top, they will be so overlapped you may not even see the lights on the first layer. Last year I had only 48 strands, 16' tall, 8' diameter base, covering only the front half ,more or less, of the tree. That was one strand every 2 inches or so around the base. When it hit an all on spot in the sequence the tree looked very full. Received lots of compliments from everyone that stopped in.

So to answer your question , YES that is way over kill. But hey, if it's what you want, go for it. Be sure to take some before and after ,as well as lit pics for us, this should be very interesting to see.

Jerry

[Santas Helper]

Here is a pic of the top of my 30' mega tree with 144 LED strands attached (at the top but not the base ring). It got crowded in a hurry and I wasn't able to get all 192 strands up because of not enough room.

I had my hookhead locally manufactured to handle more weight yet I underestimated how much space each strand takes. I have a fix for it this year though so I should have 48 strands of each color R, W, B, G..

And I guess I should add, I'm using a ham tower, not a pole.

Whether it be 10', 20' or 30' mega tree, 300 strands of lights is a BUNCH of weight.

[robm]

Wow..this sounds like quite the tree.

I'm trying to sort out how you are doing it, tell me if I am missing something:

1. 3 colors, 20 channels per color, 300 strands of 100ct, so 5 strands (i.e,, 500 bulbs) per channel? Assuming 4 channels reserved for a tree topper? Or just left open and no tree topper?

2. If the 5 string/channel assumption is correct, then roughly 1.5A per channels, 12A per 8 channel bank, 24A per controller. (assumes .33A per 100 ct incan string). That seems to match with your 27A assumption, depending on what you are using for your per string current draw .

Do I have that right, or am I completely missing it?

Curious how you are stringing the strands...are you doing 5 strings per channel and then taking them up and back down a few times?

Would also agree with BillyTRrichVA, managing things at the hookhead end sounds like it could be a challenge.

Good luck..can't wait to see the finished product.

Not sure who to reply to here.. That everyone for input. Yes and no to first year. Yes first for supertree, but have been involved in theater production/technical for years, also have high experience to broadcast tower work. 700' towers. (Thought it would be cool to light one of those! )

The Supertree is coming with a 24 hook head and Darryl said I could get 12 strings per hook. So that is 288.. I planned 300 for fudge room, spares, etc. The lights are on there way so I do no thave the exact weight of a string yet, but what I could find they are about 1 lb each. So 300 pounds, without windload, snow or ice.

Once the tree comes I was thinking (after I can see it) to add a bracket to it to allow a rigid pipe to be placed for extra load bearing.. Will need to decide that when it comes and I can see it.

Gary - your questions 1,2,3 are right on. Wish it only took me that long to figure out! Ha. But yes you are pretty much right on.

Strings are 21' long and will just come down once. On the ground it would be a string of the same color every 4". From what I read, 4" spread is the best. So with 3 colors there is going to be a string just over every 1.25" of a 10' diameter base, circumrference of 31'. Some play room worked in. All male ends on the ground.

Thanks all for the input.. Its invaluable.

[GaryM]

20 foot tree with a 10 foot diameter base would be a 20.6 foot strand length. But you mention 12 inches can't be seen...ar you going to still run the strings all the way to the base? Thinking about the connection points on the hookhead, seems like you might be struggling on string length when you think about 12 strings spreading out at the base.

I was thinking you were going end to end with the strings, but are you actually going to do 5 "slices" or 5 vertical strands on each channel, so you'll have 5 stacked plugs at the bottom for each dongle?

You'll start assembling and stringing lights on halloween, right?

[robm]

20 foot tree with a 10 foot diameter base would be a 20.6 foot strand length. But you mention 12 inches can't be seen...ar you going to still run the strings all the way to the base? Thinking about the connection points on the hookhead, seems like you might be struggling on string length when you think about 12 strings spreading out at the base.

I was thinking you were going end to end with the strings, but are you actually going to do 5 "slices" or 5 vertical strands on each channel, so you'll have 5 stacked plugs at the bottom for each dongle?

You'll start assembling and stringing lights on halloween, right?

No.... we started to assemble today! Ha.. The strings are 21' and yes if they go all the way to the bottom would be 20.6. They will not go all the way to the bottom.. At least one maybe two feet up is where they will end. So I will have a 2' tail at the bottom to plug into controller. I'm not 100% sure if going end to end or all at the bottom. I like the bottom better because to me that seems a possible high fail point(male plug) and would be nice to have that on the ground and not 20 feet in the air. So not sure. I do see your point of having 5 stacked plugs at the bottom which could be a mess. If I went end to end that would give me 3 or 4 feet left to go to controller which would probably be a good idea. One cable end to label instead of 5.

Oooo the joy... :-) ... Cannot wait to fire this baby up... You might be able to see it in CA.