jimswinder Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I want to assign two different channels the same Unit ID (ie Unit 03 - 16).I know... WHY would I want to do that?Because I am using relays to double my Channel outputs.No pair of channels would ever be "on" at the same time, but would the LOR unit freeze up just "seeing" two channels with the same ID's and not be able to process the info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 There's nothing stopping you from setting two channels in a sequence to have the same physical settings as each other, but it may have unintended consequences unless you're very careful about it.For example, you say "No pair of channels would ever be 'on' at the same time". That's not necessarily good enough. You have to ensure that no pair of channels would ever transition at the same time, too.So, for example, if you have the following...(1) Channel A is on from zero seconds to one second;(2) Channel A is off from one second to two seconds;(3) Channel B is off from zero seconds to one second;(4) Channel B is on from one second to two seconds;... then any of the following might occur:(1) The circuit is off for two seconds.(2) The circuit is off for a second, and on for the next.(3) The circuit is on for a second, and off for the next.(4) The circuit is on for two seconds.This is because it's being told to both turn on and turn off at time zero, and again to both turn on and turn off at time one, and it might get the "turn on" command before the "turn off", or vice versa, at either of the two times.And there's no guarantee which it will be. It might even be different from one run of the sequence to the next.If you're very careful about transitioning, it might work as you intend, but even then I don't guarantee it. Having two channels running simultaneously with the same physical settings is strongly discouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 The "pair of channels" wouldn't even be used together in the same song, so, no, there would not even be any chance of any transitions "bleeding" on top of one another (unless it was operator error). This is just a temporary "fix".Ran out of channels (and money) but will be buying another controller (or two) during the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Maybe I'm misunderstanding. I thought you were asking if there's any reason not to set up a sequence such that two different channels are set to use the same unit and circuit (and such). But if they will never be used together in the same song, why would you put two such channels into the same sequence?If I'm not misunderstanding, though, keep in mind that time zero is still a "transition". If one channel is off at time zero, and another is on, and they have the same physical settings as each other, then the associated circuit may or may not actually turn on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Hey Bob...No, I think you understood. The reason I want to do it is, I am splitting my LOR (using relays) so it is basically a 31 channel controller not 16.The reason for making two channels with the same ID is to just help in sequencing. Instead of double naming a channel (IE Mini Tree/Snowman) I would have two channels (IE #1 Mini Tree #2 Snowman).Obviously the Mini Tree and Snowman could not be on at the same time (because of the relay), but having it separated in the Sequence Editor just seemed like an easier way to keep things straight and knowing what I wanted/was controlling.And I did test it last night, and it worked fine...fades, twinkles, everything.More Detail: Specifically, I have a few things that won't ever be on during a show, like my Radio Sign, and some lights that will only be used during my "How Many Lights Are There?" animation skit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salts Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Can you post a sketch or video of how you have this setup. It just doesn't make any since. If you are using the same channel identification and it triggers a relay wouldn't both the snowman and the mini tree still come on at the same time. If that is the case why not just use a splitter on the end of the LOR cord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Search here and PC for "Double Your Channel" threads. One LOR channel triggers a group of relays that disconnect a group of channels from one set of elements, and connects them to a different group of elements. Personally, I am not a fan of this idea. I think you open up a lot of opportunities for Murphy to set up shop in your display. One of the people I know who has done it has at least once commented that in hindsight he wished he had just gone for more channels instead.I will also comment here that this way of using two channels with the same channel config should be viewed as a fortunate accident if it works, and that future improvements to the documented features of the software may cause this to not work the same in future releases... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salts Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Yea it doesn't sound good to me either. It also just sounds like more of a headache when sequencing. Who needs headaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Sequencing is really very easy...as is keeping it separate.I would agree it's not for everyone...If I had a spare $300 (as opposed to $50 for the relays) I would have bought another controller. But I just couldn't see putting out that much money to control a few lights that would only be used minimally compared to the rest of the display.As for future software not allowing it...do you mean two channels having the same ID, or using a relay? Because I don't see how any software would be able to hamper using a relay.Here are the links on how to do it:Videos on Youtube:Explanation: Demonstration: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I'm not suggesting anything deliberate. Just that using two channels with the same target hardware circuit is outside the documented product feature set. It should be thought of as a fortunate circumstance that it works for you, with the limitations that Bob has described above. The issue is that since it is not a documented feature of the product, and not a target use, there is the risk that some bug fix or feature enhancement, or processing optimization may alter the way it works when two channels are configured the same.It is kind of like the LED MR16s that WireKat imports. They were never advertised by the manufacturer as PWM dimmable, but the first batch were. When the manufacturer improved their design for low voltage landscape lighting use, they lost the ability to be PWM dimmed by themselves. By the manufacturers definition of what the product is and was, there is no deficiency in the product performance, but an unintended side use no longer works as it first did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldoradoboy Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 the wireKAT LED MR16's arent dimmable?? I got mine this summer and they are dimming just perfectly on my DC controller..in fact i even put some in a couple of my MR16 track lights in the house to test for art display and they dim there too...-Christopher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 eldoradoboy wrote: the wireKAT LED MR16's arent dimmable?? I got mine this summer and they are dimming just perfectly on my DC controller..in fact i even put some in a couple of my MR16 track lights in the house to test for art display and they dim there too...-ChristopherDirectly, or with a resistor in series? The originals could be directly connected, and dimmed fine. The later ones do OK with a resistor in series, but not quite as good as the originals.If directly, it is likely that he got a new design revision as compared to his second and third batches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimswinder Posted November 24, 2009 Author Share Posted November 24, 2009 I have noticed that when I run the Verifier, it will give me a "Conflict" warning...but it doesn't stop it from working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts