Deer in headlights alert! Newbie trying first sequence.

[Klayfish]

So I had a classic deer in headlights moment last night and could use some advice. I downloaded the free demo software a few weeks ago, and have watched a lot of the tutorial videos on YouTube. I played around with the software a bit. Bought my basic license and registered it.

Last night, I went to start my first ever attempt at sequencing a song. I wanted to do "Call Me Maybe" since it's got a good strong beat. I figured that would help me a lot. I opened the song in sequencer, then just kind of froze, not sure where to go from there. For example:

I opened it with the beat wizard. Got a warning that I can't save it, guess beat wizard doesn't come with the basic license...time for upgrade already. It sets timing marks in a pretty linear fashion, as the songs background beat is pretty steady. That's cool, but what if I wanted to set marks on other things in the song (her singing, etc...)? Do you just manually move the marks, or do you do the song using the Tapper wizard??

That said, I decided to go ahead and try sequencing anyway with what the beat wizard picked out. OK...first 3 or 4 seconds of the song is just faint instrument beat, easy enough. But when she starts singing, I got totally stuck. Do you time the lights with the background beat or with her voice (if the voice, then I have to change the timing marks)??? Or do you switch back and forth...i.e. in the song sometimes her voice is prominent, sometimes it's the music. Also, how do you decide what to do? Fade, shimmer, chase, etc...? What factors make you decide what to use?

I have 16 channels. 8 will be for a row of mini-trees. For the other 8, we're putting them on the hill in our lawn. The last 20' of our front lawn slopes significantly down, and cars driving by look right at it. So we're laying out lights to look like 8 Christmas trees, including toppers.

Sorry for the total newbie question, but I guess I had a version of "writers block" and need to push through it.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Klayfish

[DownTown]

It sounds like you are off on the right foot... you have a layout in mind. Now, as you listen to your music (over and over), you need to imagine what you want your lights to be doing. How does the music make you feel? Does it make you feel "left and right" or "up and down"? Make your lights echo the way the music makes you feel.

You are the artist. I'm sure you've watched videos of other's Christmas lights... what did you like about their displays? What made you say "WOW!"?

With the wizards... I personally ignore the beat wizard, because I can't make it do what I want it to do. (I'm sure this is my fault - I'm just not musically inclined). I use the tapper wizard and lay out a beat track for each song I do. I use a .05 second timeing grid for the entire song. This tight grid will let you make transitions that are no more than 1/40th of a second off from the music, and noone is going to notice with that small of a delta. As you sequence you'll learn your own tricks to save you time. Some of my favorites are using the keybaord shortcuts, and I do a lot co copy and pasting.

I think the best advice for you is to just get in there and do it. Understand that t's time consuming. 8 channels might take you 2 hours per minute of music as you're first starting out... stick with it. It does get easier.

Welcome to the madness. There are lots of guys here with the information you need when you do get stuck.

D.T.

[ainsworth]

The "you cant save it warning sounds like you haven't entered your license number and are still in demo mode. In the sequence editor - go to help menu - upgrade - you will get a box that will have you enter your name and license number.

You can have more than one set of timing marks in a single sequence. Again in the sequence editor - edit - timings - switch timing grid then choose if you want a constant or variable grid and give it a name. For example if you have a grid using the beat wizard call it beat, you can have a second grid, let's say vocals, where you used the tapper wizard to mark the singing. Then you can switch grids using the pull down in the upper right part of the sequence editor.

You can have all your lights moving to 1 beat, or you can have them moving to different beats, that's a personal thing. I still have some of my 16 channel sequence posted on Vimeo if you want to take a look. Here is one that has the lights moving to different beats.

have fun and good luck

[shfr26]

The "basic" level does not include the beat wizard function. Here is the comparison chart for each level. I would get the advanced now and you should be set.

Edit: I use the beat wizard quit often, also make sure your song is a constant bit rate and not variable. MP3 constant bit rate or use a WAV format. Audacity is free and works great for converting to CBR.

http://www.lightoram.../S2Versions.htm

Edited September 14, 2012 by shfr26

[Orville]

I use a ,05 timing grid.

I use more fade downs than fade ups, but depending on how the music flows is how I decide if I use a fade up.

Here's how i decide what I'm going to use and for what:

Fade downs: used for emulating the vocals in a song. I don't have singing faces, so I use this to try and simulate singing using a/or blowmold characters. Fade downs are also my primary use for turning on, then off my lights. Also usually will use this at the end of a song to fade off any/all lights that are still in motion or static on, depending on song.

Shimmer: I created a unique sequence of events for this one. This one I mainly use for a "Candle Flickering" effect, great for Halloween Jack O' Lanterns and Candle Flames, Old Style Type Lanterns. I use this effect on my Christmas blowmold 2 channel candles modified to light the stalks and the flicker effect for the flame top. I also use the shimmer on ALL lights in some areas of a song to create a unique effect. Although it might give an epileptic{sp?} fits. LOL I also use the shimmer effect in vocals to emulate that wavering sound that some singers manage to make. With this it's a solid fade, then shimmering. Takes some editing and fine tuning, but the effect is really nice.

Twinkle: I will sometimes use this when I just don't feel the need to sequence a specific prop in a song and I just want it to light up randomly as a song plays. I use this effect for instrumental type music mostly, and usually a fast paced type instrumental, but not always.

Solid {ON only}: used for strobes, motorized/animated wire frames or figures, like I have a 5' animated dancing skeleton, if I just want him to start dancing, I turn on a channel full ON only to get him started and then he runs his own course, shuts off, until I restart him with another full on command in the sequencer.

Fade ups: These I will use under some circumstances, only if I want the lights to come on slowly as the song starts, epecially if it's a slow song, usually with slow songs, I will slowly fade up the lights and then go on solid for 20% {LED} or 50% if Incandescent. I will also use this to fade up/down a Halloween prop like my converted backlit Bright White LED Witch Sillouhette on Yellow Moon.

Other ranges of ON, Shimmer, Fades, and Twinkle: Depending on the mood of the song and type of light {incandescent or LED} will determine the intensity I will use in specific songs, some may be all lights on at 50% {incans}, 20%-30% {LED}. I have used as low as an 10-15% for LED, depends on type and color of LED, and as low as 25% on incandescents, again, this depends on bulb count and color in an incan string. The more somber the song, the lower intensity I may use. Sometimes I have a combination of all these intensities and varying effects in a song, but, again, depends on the song and what I want it to look like.

But it's taken me 3 years of doing this to get where I am with it. When I first started out, and going back and looking at some of my first sequencing when I started in 2010, I think good grief, did I really do it that way? Or geez, that was sure horrible! LOL

And as others have said, you will improve with time, it gets easier as you go along with it.

Anyway, if any of my info helps, great, if not, well, just trying to give you some idea of a direction you might be able to use.

Good Luck and Welcome to the one sickness we all love to be ill with, Holiday Decorating using LOR Controllers/Software and Hardware.

BTW: You really should buy the ADVANCED LICENSE. It will allow you to do more with the software, plus as your show and controller count grows, you won't have to upgrade later, which, believe me, is inevitable. I had initially thought to start with 32 channels and the Basic+ license, within a few weeks I had 5 controllers and 80 channels, so I needed the Advanced License a lot sooner that even I had anticipated originally. Upgrade now and you will be able to do so much more and not need to worry about what you can or can't do later with the SE or be limited to a specific number of controllers.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Orville

[dstevens]

BTW: You really should buy the ADVANCED LICENSE. It will allow you to do more with the software, plus as your show and controller count grows, you won't have to upgrade later, which, believe me, is inevitable. I had initially thought to start with 32 channels and the Basic+ license, within a few weeks I had 5 controllers and 80 channels, so I needed the Advanced License a lot sooner that even I had anticipated originally. Upgrade now and you will be able to do so much more and not need to worry about what you can or can't do later with the SE or be limited to a specific number of controllers.

This is really good advice. I ran into the same thing.

[columbus27]

I have the basic plus and you can do most things.

[Klayfish]

Wow, thanks for the quick responses!!

I know I'm going to need to upgrade my license. But my budget absolutely won't allow anything more than 16 channels this year, as I still have a transmitter, frequency tuning sign (I don't have time to build from scratch), more lights, etc...to buy. So I had hoped to use the basic for this year, if at all possible. If nothing else, I can probably upgrade to basic plus to get the beat wizard.

I totally forgot about doing a .05 fixed timing grid. Perhaps I can do that, and it'll allow me to put effects pretty much where I need. Perhaps that would be the easiest starting point?

I am definitely familiar with the song. I have a 5 year old daughter. Even her twin brother likes the song, as does my wife. So I know the beat, vocals, etc...very well. A good thing about the song is that it has the same refrain repeated several times, and it's pretty long. So hopefully I can do some cut/paste. I have it in WAV format, so I believe I'm good to go there.

Funtobewith,

When you sequence in that order, don't you have overlap? i.e. if you sequence the beat, when you go to do the voices, won't you already have effects in some of the spots where vocals are?

Oreville,

Thanks for that detailed write up! I'm going to cut and paste that into a little document I'm creating to help teach myself how to do this.

Downtown,

You're right, I've been trying to get a visual image of what I want it to do. Since the song is more of a dance/pop song, in my mind I see more full on/off type effects (chase, simple off/on, etc..) than shimmers or twinkles. In my mind, it gives it more flash and tempo. Or maybe that's just my excuse to find easy things to do...

The more I look at this, the more I'm amazed at how some of you guys/gals do it. I'm trying to figure out how I'd make 16 different channels work in sequence with the song, I can't imagine doing dozens, or hundreds. For example, there might be a time or two where I want all 16 to light up suddenly (yes, I'm checking to make sure I have adequate electrical capacity...electrician is stoping by shortly), or I want the 8 mini trees to play in time with my 8 Christmas trees. I can't imagine trying to choreograph dozens more.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Klayfish

[shfr26]

Sixteen channels should only need two 20 amps circuit, at the most, depending on how many lights and what kind. Make sure you know exactly how many amps each channels is pulling .

Each bank ie 1-8 and 9-16 can only be 15 amps, max of 8 amps on one channel. This is very important so as to not overdraw and pop a curcuit or ruin your controller. If you can, get a "Kill a watt" meter, like 15-20 bucks at HD. Good luck.

[columbus27]

Most garages or basments have a dedicated 20 amp circuit for a freezer. Pop a GFCI on that and you should be good.

[Ron Boyd]

Fantastic Info folks. I learned a few things here too.

Klayfish, One thing that helped me tremendously was, I bought a couple of sequences from LOR, downloaded some off of the web, (most are free) and I studied how the other folks did what they did. It made a huge difference in, not only learning the software, but learning what can be done with it too. I still learn everytime I open the software or watch another video. If I hit a snag, I ask questions. Sometimes, I smack myself on the forehead and say, Knucklehead, that was easy. Sometimes I say, there's no way I would have figured that out.

The main advice I can give you is to, as mentioned above, Listen to the song, each instrument, drums, guitars, bass, keyboard, imagine what would look good with your layout and then put it in. You can always change it. I like to go through the song and sequence each prop/s individually, go back to the beginning and do the next prop/s. It's worked for me. Everybody is going to do it differently, no two layouts are the same.

Just have fun. The first smile you see or the first wow you hear makes it all worth while.

Ron

[Klayfish]

I like to go through the song and sequence each prop/s individually, go back to the beginning and do the next prop/s. It's worked for me. Everybody is going to do it differently, no two layouts are the same.

I've read in the forums that a lot of people seem to like to do that. The only question I have is how then do you make all the props work together? Do you look at the sequence for the previously finished prop as you program the next? For example, if I sequence my 8 mini-trees first, there would be times where I'd want my 8 Christmas trees to come on at the same time. So I'd need to keep looking at the mini-tree sequence to make sure the props are all choreographed together, right?

Unfortunately, my garage or basement don't have a dedicated circuit for a freezer. We have a 200amp panel, and it's full. I have to double check, but I believe our garage has 2 circuits (it may actually be just one), 15amps each. There is one outlet on the front porch, which is 15amp. Good thing is that there is a circuit or two in our panel we don't use...the house was built for a whole house vacuum system, but we never installed it, so that circuit is unused. My electrician will probably repurpose those. The very first thing I bought when diving into this hobby was a Kill-O-Watt.

EDIT: I plan to try to use the visualizer this weekend. I want to make a mock up of what the layout will look like and then see if people have 16 channel sequences that may fit my needs, so I can use those to help learn.

Edited September 14, 2012 by Klayfish

[columbus27]

There are more areas in the house where you might have a dedicated 20 amp. Check behind the stove if you use gas, The plug above the stove if you don't have a microwave, and in the laundry room.

But if you're running LED's you wouldn't have to worry about this. I like how the old school lights look. And you can't beet 2.50 a box at Lowe's.

[DownTown]

I've read in the forums that a lot of people seem to like to do that. The only question I have is how then do you make all the props work together? Do you look at the sequence for the previously finished prop as you program the next? For example, if I sequence my 8 mini-trees first, there would be times where I'd want my 8 Christmas trees to come on at the same time. So I'd need to keep looking at the mini-tree sequence to make sure the props are all choreographed together, right?

This is the way I do it too...One "prop" at a time. You will be able to see all of your props/channels on one screen since you are starting out with 16 channels. You will be able to see where the mini trees turn on and off and fade... it will be easy to just look down the column to your other channels and go ahead and turn them on/off in sync with the rest.

Do you have the visualizer configured? No? Me either. I use the animation screen exclusively. I feel no need to waste time setting up the visualizer when the animation screen does exactly what I need. That is something you should do soon after you have decided on your final layout. It will help you to see what your lights will be doing when your sequences run. Do either, but do one.

Now get in front of that sequence editor and get going! Christmas is coming!

D.T.

Edited September 14, 2012 by DownTown

[shfr26]

This is the way I do it too...One "prop" at a time. You will be able to see all of your props/channels on one screen since you are starting out with 16 channels. You will be able to see where the mini trees turn on and off and fade... it will be easy to just look down the column to your other channels and go ahead and turn them on/off in sync with the rest.

Do you have the visualizer configured? No? Me either. I use the animation screen exclusively. I feel no need to waste time setting up the visualizer when the animation screen does exactly what I need. That is something you should do soon after you have decided on your final layout. It will help you to see what your lights will be doing when your sequences run. Do either, but do one.

Now get in front of that sequence editor and get going! Christmas is coming!

D.T.

I have to kindly disagree on that point. I finally got the vis set up and I think it is about 90% or higher, better than the animation screen.

Curious, do you have a spiral tree?? If so, how did you draw it in the animation screen? The vis sreen in my opinion is alot better, maybe harder to set up, but worth it in the end.

[DownTown]

Do you have the visualizer configured? No? Me either. I use the animation screen exclusively. I feel no need to waste time setting up the visualizer when the animation screen does exactly what I need. That is something you should do soon after you have decided on your final layout. It will help you to see what your lights will be doing when your sequences run. Do either, but do one.

I have to kindly disagree on that point. I finally got the vis set up and I think it is about 90% or higher, better than the animation screen. Curious, do you have a spiral tree?? If so, how did you draw it in the animation screen? The vis sreen in my opinion is alot better, maybe harder to set up, but worth it in the end.

Sorry Shfr, I missed something...

Which point do you disagree with?

That I use the animation screen exclusively? Sorry, I don't even know how to start the visualizer.

That I feel that there is no need to waste time configuring the visualizer? I don't need the visualizer because "The animation screen does exactly what I need" (see above). I'm a believer in most bang for the buck (time is the buck, in this case)

That setting up the visualizer or animation screen is one of the first things he should do after finalizing his layout? How will he see what his display will look like without doing that? (if you look, I did say to do either of them).

No, I do not have a spiral tree. (non sequitur)

The OP has a 16 channel setup. He is not likely to have a spiral tree... or pixels... or any other higher end stuff this year. In your words, the visualizer is "harder to set up". Why burden a newb with an additional layer of complexity? It's too late in the cycle to be wasting time fiddling with that. Dec 1st is only 77 days away... tick tick tick... why aren't you sequencing?

D.T.

[shfr26]

Sorry Shfr, I missed something...

Which point do you disagree with?

That I use the animation screen exclusively? Sorry, I don't even know how to start the visualizer.

That I feel that there is no need to waste time configuring the visualizer? I don't need the visualizer because "The animation screen does exactly what I need" (see above). I'm a believer in most bang for the buck (time is the buck, in this case)

That setting up the visualizer or animation screen is one of the first things he should do after finalizing his layout? How will he see what his display will look like without doing that? (if you look, I did say to do either of them).

No, I do not have a spiral tree. (non sequitur)

The OP has a 16 channel setup. He is not likely to have a spiral tree... or pixels... or any other higher end stuff this year. In your words, the visualizer is "harder to set up". Why burden a newb with an additional layer of complexity? It's too late in the cycle to be wasting time fiddling with that. Dec 1st is only 77 days away... tick tick tick... why aren't you sequencing?

D.T.

Sorry, I thought you would see the potion that I make in italics.

Do you have the visualizer configured? No? Me either. I use the animation screen exclusively. I feel no need to waste time setting up the visualizer when the animation screen does exactly what I need

My only point was if he has nothing set up yet, he may be better off using the visualizer for any future additions such as RBG,CCB.CCR and what ever. I do agree with16 channels he will probably not need it now, but how many people started with 16 and never got any more controllers?? The one reason I stated that was because I recently posted a poll on this subject and the vis is way ahead. Just a matter of opinion and was not trying to start anything. And by the way, I have been doing sequencing all day long since about 9:00 this AM. I went to the vis this year because I could not figure out how to do a spiral tree in it. Sorry if I offended you, now you get back to sequencing mister. :)

[Don]

Some posts in the thread have been split into their own thread.

Link to thread.

[Klayfish]

I wish I could do more than 16 channels this year, but it's just not happening. I definitely would like to go to 32 or 48 next year, but I'll see how that goes. Budget is always a factor, but my biggest challenge is free time. I just don't have much. I'm actually taking a few days off work exclusively to set everything up (plus the time I'll spend on weekends). But finding time to do a lot of sequencing is tough.

I'm trying to figure out the visualizer. I opened the program and inserted a picture of my house. I was able to use the "tree" tool to make some basic vision of what my layout was going to be. I only put in the lights that I plan to use with my 16 channels, as everything else is going to be static. But then I went to try to resize the image and the picture disappeared?? So now I have to start from scratch. I haven't even seen the animation screen, guess I'll have to look into what it is.

[columbus27]

I am using 2.9 if you go to the view tab then down to animation you can draw each ch and play it.