wiring 3 way switch

[Guest guest]

I thought I was thinking ahead and had outlets installed on my eaves and put on a switch when we built our house. Now I want to use the 16 channel LOR to control some of the outlets and still use it as intended the rest of the year. Can I install a 3 way switch and another outlet to make this work. Here is what I am thinking. By using a 3 way switch, I can control when power comes from the breaker box. With the connection broken, I can use a double male extentsion cord from the LOR to the inline outet to take control for my display. Here is what it would look like:

eave outlet --- outlet to plug LOR into --- 3 way switch --- breaker box

Mainly I just would like to use the wiring already installed in my house and cut down on the cords running everywhere.

Thanks for any advise,

Brian

[Guest guest]

Not sure how your soffet outlets are wired, so first of all are they all on separate switches or are they all on one switch, which of course will make a difference in how you could control them. Second you should NEVER use or build a male to male cord since once its plugged into a power outlet the prongs on the other end are HOT and could lead to you getting shocked or worse. So I will not assume how it may be wired or give you any further advise until you clarify the first item...don't worry we will be able to figure this out with you.

[Guest guest]

A double male extension cord sounds like a really, really bad idea to me.

[Guest guest]

Definately a dangerous plan. I wouldn't do it.

[Guest guest]

Double male adaptor and extension cords were a highly requested item every year at Christmas time when I worked at Menard's.
(They had strung their lights the wrong direction)

A few people got quite irritated when I told them we did not have them... a couple even claimed to own some, but they couldn't find them! (SURE ya do!)

No one will manufacture something that would allow you to touch the end and contact live voltage..... So please don't manufacture one yourself.

We kinda like ya and want you to decorate for years to come!

A standard 3 way switch will not do what you want..it has to be a DPDT switch which is an unusual configuration for residential wiring devices.

The only safe way I can think to do what you want to do would be to install what is known as a "transfer switch", it is intended for generator use. They sometimes will have a male socket inside the same box which would serve your purpose. It does what you want by disconnecting the mains voltage from the branch circuit and connects the branch circuit (female outlets) to the male recepticle (which is safe because then there is no way for voltage to ever be present on the male recepticle. You would use a standard extension cord to go from LOR to the tranfer switch.

By all means consult an electrician.. Be Safe!

Hope this helps!

[Guest guest]

If the 3 way switch isolates the power to the controller/channel in one position and the circuit to the CD panel in the other position, then this would be possible.

After installing the 3 way switch (safely), have a standard outlet box installed right after the 3 way. On the LOR controller, replace the female cord/plug for the intended channel with a male cord/plug. Now just run a standard extension cord from the outlet next to the 3 way and to the male plug going to that channel. Obviously there is still risk of shock if the male plug is not plugged in and the controller is running but it will be much less than building a double male plug.

I strongly suggest going over this with a certified electrician.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

[Guest guest]

Santas Helper wrote:

If the 3 way switch isolates the power to the controller/channel in one position and the circuit to the CD panel in the other position, then this would be possible.

After installing the 3 way switch (safely), have a standard outlet box installed right after the 3 way. On the LOR controller, replace the female cord/plug for the intended channel with a male cord/plug. Now just run a standard extension cord from the outlet next to the 3 way and to the male plug going to that channel. Obviously there is still risk of shock if the male plug is not plugged in and the controller is running but it will be much less than building a double male plug.

I strongly suggest going over this with a certified electrician.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

Sorry,
I have to disagree with this...

If you install a female outlet after the switch then you can still flip the switch and apply power to the LOR channel from the female outlet. (backfeeding)

Simply put there is no way to make this work...

Combined with the fact that a "3-way switch" will not do what you want, and I strongly disagree with a male plug end on a LOR channel...(still the ability to expose live voltage on the male end of a cord)

I don't mean to offend anyone......

My main concern is everyone's safety

[Guest guest]

Ok! I think I have a solution. Put a SPDT (3-way) switch in the current switch box. Use a multimeter to determine which of the poles is the common. Wire the hot of the eve outlet to the common on the switch. Wire the ground and neutral straight through to the bus-bar. On one of the throw poles, wire the hot from the circuit breaker. Take a short extension cord and remove the female end (3ft.) and take a cable nipple (attached picture) and put it on. The cord runs through the nipple. It will function like a strain relief on the cord; one end (threaded) goes into a knock-out on the junction box and use a lock nut. Place wire nuts over the neutral and if present the ground. Wire the hot on the extension cord to the other pole on the switch. Use a wall plate around the switch. This would be a safe way to accomplish what you want.

EDIT:I changed a female to a male.


Attached files

[Guest guest]

Thanks for all of the brain storming on this. I've thought about what has been said and I agree about the exposed male end. I had not thought about that. I will look at Brad's suggestion, but thought of this last night and will put it up for comment. I put the outlet on the wrong side of the switch. My diagram should look like this:

--- breaker box
eave oultet --- 3 way switch <
--- outlet controlled --- LOR --- outlet for LOR
by the LOR

1. This would isolate where the power comes from.
2. Would not allow power to backfeed into the LOR.

I think I'm getting closer!

Thanks again for the help,

Brian

[Guest guest]

terrypowerz wrote:

Double male adaptor and extension cords were a highly requested item every year at Christmas time when I worked at Menard's.
(They had strung their lights the wrong direction)

A few people got quite irritated when I told them we did not have them... a couple even claimed to own some, but they couldn't find them! (SURE ya do!)

We have one, back at my parent's place. My dad made it for, guess what, fixing the goof he made when he string the lights backwards :laughing:. Funny thing is, he used it that way for years and years (why fix what isn't broken, even if it does mean you have a live male prong dangling somewhere, lol). I eliminated it after I took over the display and replaced all of the lights, which were about 30 years old at that time (C9's).

Dad also used that same cord to backfeed a generator into the house during power outages. NOT legal, by the way! Dad had that Iowa farm mentality "make it work, and no better"...

-Tim

[Guest guest]

FireMedic4Christ wrote:

I thought I was thinking ahead and had outlets installed on my eaves and put on a switch when we built our house. Now I want to use the 16 channel LOR to control some of the outlets and still use it as intended the rest of the year. Can I install a 3 way switch and another outlet to make this work. Here is what I am thinking. By using a 3 way switch, I can control when power comes from the breaker box. With the connection broken, I can use a double male extentsion cord from the LOR to the inline outet to take control for my display. Here is what it would look like:

I'm really confused as to what you're trying to accomplish. Why can't you just leave the switch on and plug LOR into your outlets? You could always tape it on, or even temporarilly remove it and hardwire it on during the season...

I guess I'm missing something...

-Tim

[Guest guest]

Brian, I agree with Tim - I'm confused! A 3 way switch's capability is for turning on a outlet from 2 points - example: Light in center of a hall with a switch on both ends. Why can't you just turn on power to dedicated circuits using the circuit breaker switch? If there is another outlet on a circuit that needs to stay on all the time, use a timer with your LOR boards.

[Guest guest]

Hopefully this will help with the confusion. I have soffet outlets and access to some of them. Since the wiring is in the walls already, I would like to keep things neat and utilize them if possible. I wanted to keep the option to use as normal for two reasons. Firstly, I may want to do something with them and secondly if and when I sell the house I don't want to have to rewire things for the new owner. Otherwise they would get soffet outlets and no way to use them.

I was hoping to find some kind of transfer switch that allows me to control where the power comes from. Source one is the breakbox. Source two would be one of the channels from the LOR. I envisioned it to look like this:

Breaker box
soffet outlet ---- switch <
LOR Channel --- LOR Controller --- Power for LOR

I think the 3 way switch will allow the transfer of power source okay if I can figure out how to wire it properly. The input from the LOR channel could be a normal outlet or possibly a pigtail coming from the switch. I think!

Hopefully this helps to explain things and thanks for all of the brain power trying to solve my problem.

Brian

[Guest guest]

I have an idea...but if you can help me picture where things are located it might make it easier.

The soffit outlets..those are obvious! LOL!
Now where is the switch...other outlets on same branch..and breaker panel?
Where do you want to have the LOR unit located?

Tim.....he wants to control the soffit outlets with LOR....yet be able to use them as normal outlets at other times

Randy......3 way switch...I agree.. that is NOT what you want to use..... it will take a very non standard congfig switch... Brian I think knows this..he just is refering to it as a 3 way switch...it is actually a double throw switch.

If he can tell me the locations of everything I think there is a way to do this safely without a special switch :}

(or a hot male plug end!)

[Guest guest]

Oh, I get it now.

I don't think there's a good way to do this, short of running a new wire to every soffit outlet. You could then add a new UL-approved junction box, mount it to where all the wires came back to (presumably near the breaker box) and hardwire it to an LOR board. If/when you move, you could remove the board, and connect all the wires back together.

There's probably a way to keep the switch in the loop also.

My own personal opinion is that it's a problem that's probably not worth solving -- just run some temporary wiring harnesses for your LOR channels. But everyone has a different financial/gruntwork/whatever threshold...

-Tim

[Guest guest]

The two soffet outlets that I wanted to start with are in the garage and I have easy access. Eventually I was considering all of them but the rest are on the second story and require me to crawl around in the attic.

Since it is in the garage, I have easy access and planned on putting the "3way" for lack of a better term near the breaker box. I would also put the LOR and computer there as well.

I'm mostly a neak freak and didn't want all of the extension cords if I didn't have to.

Brian

[Guest guest]

One more question...
Are the soffit outlets the only thing that is on that branch/breaker?

[Guest guest]

Brian, I can't see a safe way to do it. To hook the soffit outlets to LOR they would have to be completely rewired. As currently wired, a duplex outlet would be 1 channel at best. Your controller has 16 channels right? You would need 16 or at least 8 minimum (separated) duplex outlets to spread from your controller. Why not do as Jeff Trykoski does? He plugs into soffit outlet, mounts controller on wall underneath, then runs the cords from there. Or plug the controller in under soffit, and put controller near to the 16 channels you want to control. Your controller is temporarily used, your house wiring is permanent.

[Guest guest]

terrypowerz wrote:

Santas Helper wrote:

If the 3 way switch isolates the power to the controller/channel in one position and the circuit to the CD panel in the other position, then this would be possible.

After installing the 3 way switch (safely), have a standard outlet box installed right after the 3 way. On the LOR controller, replace the female cord/plug for the intended channel with a male cord/plug. Now just run a standard extension cord from the outlet next to the 3 way and to the male plug going to that channel. Obviously there is still risk of shock if the male plug is not plugged in and the controller is running but it will be much less than building a double male plug.

I strongly suggest going over this with a certified electrician.

Just my thoughts,

Tom

Sorry,
I have to disagree with this...

If you install a female outlet after the switch then you can still flip the switch and apply power to the LOR channel from the female outlet. (backfeeding)

Simply put there is no way to make this work...

Combined with the fact that a "3-way switch" will not do what you want, and I strongly disagree with a male plug end on a LOR channel...(still the ability to expose live voltage on the male end of a cord)

I don't mean to offend anyone......

My main concern is everyone's safety

Terry, I think you misunderstood my suggestion. Simply, there is a way.

With the 3 way switch, in one position, it allows the power from the CD panel to the lights like normal. In this position, the connection (by means of the outlet box) to the LOR channel would be interrupted and would NOT be able to backfeed. Turn the switch to the center position and it disconnects power from the CB to the lights. Turn the switch the other way allows the female outlet to power the lights from the LOR channel. I think you also misunderstood the connection from the female outlet to the showtime controller channel. If I change out let's say channel number 1 with a male cord/plug and plug that into the female outlet next to the switch, how is that any more harmful than plugging in a lamp? Obviously, if the LOR isn't running yet, there would be no power running thru the male plug when plugging it in.


Below is Brians drawing which is what I was trying to explain.

--- breaker box
eave oultet --- 3 way switch <
--- outlet controlled --- LOR --- outlet for LOR
by the LOR

1. This would isolate where the power comes from.
2. Would not allow power to backfeed into the LOR.



Maybe I'm missing something here but I can see it work and being safe about it too.

Brian, it's really your choice (it can be done) as long as you keep safety in mind and be smart about it. Again, visit with an electrician just to be safe.

Tom

[Guest guest]

Thanks for everyone's input. Santa's Helper does understand what I want to accomplish. My use of the term 3 way switch probably doesn't describe what I wanted well and added to the confusion. I simply want to some kind of switch that transfers the power source from the breaker panel in one position and the LOR in the other.

Thinking further down the road, the outlets I can't reach will probably have a LOR controller mounted up there close by. For now, the ones around the garage could be utilized in my current 16 channel LOR. The controller and computer will be in the garage most likely this and it was just a thought and convient (at least I thought so).

I will be checking with a electrician before I do anything.

Brian