Static display items during show

[beeiilll]

My appologies if this has been discussed before but I can't seem to locate a topic on it.

This year I have around 150 different display items out in the display that I am adding. Most of them will not need to be flashy/blinky during the show and just need to be on in a static mode during the show and then shutoff at the end of the show.

I am running them through LOR controllers since eventually I will control a lot of them during the show to add features to the display and will have some of them as "working" items during songs. Just not this year since time is too short for the sequencing portion of things at this point.

So my question is how do you turn on something like wireframes or blowmolds and have them just stay on during the show and then shutoff at the end? I just want to turn on the static items when the show starts up and then shut them off as the show ends but I would like them to stay on between songs.

I "assume" that you would use an animation sequence for it that runs as a background item and does not shutoff the lights after a song completes?

Hope that someone understands what I am trying to do here. I think I am getting fried some trying to get everything set up for this year already!

[Kevin N]

Yes...running an animation sequence in the background is the best option (I believe). This is how I run my radio sign. Good luck!

Just remember to not use the channels you are running in the "background" on any other sequences.

[jimswinder]

If you don't want to use up precious channels, how about putting the static displays on timers?

I know they may not be to accurate (or maybe there are some out there that are), or perhaps you could even control them separately with the computer clock just turning them on and off.

[Kevin N]

Yes...I agree with Jim. I was assuming that beeiilll was already allocating the channel(s) for these items. If not...definitely go with the timers. If you are planning on using LOR to turn these items on/off...the aforementioned animation sequence running in the background is the way to go. Either way...good luck and happy decorating.

Kevin

[Steven]

If I understand correctly, Beeill's plan is to add the channels in question to some sequences later, but to have them on 100% until he gets around to modifying the sequences.

It's possible to have a "static" channel that's on 100% for most of the time, but flashes to the beat of certain sequences. To do that, take the channel out of the background sequence, and turn it on in a "Startup" sequence. Make sure to un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box.

Then create a "Shutdown" sequence that has all your channels, including this "static" channel, and turns those channels off.

Now, when it's time to add this "static" channel to one of your sequences, add it, and make sure it's on 100% at the end of this sequence. In the "Musical" section, again make sure to un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box.

This way, your can gradually add the additional channels to your sequences, one at a time.

[beeiilll]

Thanks Steven

That is exactly what I am planning to do. I am just running out of time to resequence all them into the songs at this point so I just want to have them "on" for now and then I will put them into the sequences as I get the time to do it.

Thanks for the help.

[beeiilll]

Steven wrote:

If I understand correctly, Beeill's plan is to add the channels in question to some sequences later, but to have them on 100% until he gets around to modifying the sequences.

It's possible to have a "static" channel that's on 100% for most of the time, but flashes to the beat of certain sequences. To do that, take the channel out of the background sequence, and turn it on in a "Startup" sequence. Make sure to un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box.

Then create a "Shutdown" sequence that has all your channels, including this "static" channel, and turns those channels off.

Now, when it's time to add this "static" channel to one of your sequences, add it, and make sure it's on 100% at the end of this sequence. In the "Musical" section, again make sure to un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box.

This way, your can gradually add the additional channels to your sequences, one at a time.

So if I understand this correctly, I make up a new animation sequence that is 1 minute long. This sequence would have all the channels in it that I have in my setup (basically my channel config.lcc file).

Then turn on the channels for the static only items for the full lenght of the sequence and leave all the other channels off. Place this new sequence in the startup folder of the show editor, un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box,
and it should be good to go.

As I include one of these "static elements" channels in one of my musical sequences to control it then that channel will be controlled for that song (sequence) and then go back to a static full on after that song/sequence has played? Would I have to make the channel set as full on when the sequence controlling it ends if the next song/sequence is not controlling it?

Also does the animation sequence need to have a "loop" in it or does just having the channel set as full on for the entire animation sequence set it for the entire show?

Thanks guys.

[Steven]

beeiilll wrote:

So if I understand this correctly, I make up a new animation sequence that is 1 minute long. This sequence would have all the channels in it that I have in my setup (basically my channel config.lcc file).

That would be fine. You don't really need the non-static channels in that sequence, but it doesn't hurt.

Then turn on the channels for the static only items for the full lenght of the sequence and leave all the other channels off. Place this new sequence in the startup folder of the show editor, un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" box, and it should be good to go.

You don't need to turn on the "static" channels for the full length of the sequence - just make sure they're on at the end. If you want to get fancy, you can fade them up at different times through this sequence so it looks like your show is fading up from all black.

As I include one of these "static elements" channels in one of my musical sequences to control it then that channel will be controlled for that song (sequence) and then go back to a static full on after that song/sequence has played? Would I have to make the channel set as full on when the sequence controlling it ends if the next song/sequence is not controlling it?

It won't automatically go back to full on. You have to make sure it's full on at the end of your musical sequence so it stays on when that sequence has finished. This is the reason you have to un-check the "Turn used lights off..." checkbox for the "Musical" tab as well as the "Startup" tab.

If you have a sequence that contains a "static" channel, and that "static" channel is not on, then it will turn off. There is no way to force a channel to stay on if a sequence is running that turns it off. This means that you have two choices for those sequences that don't control the "static" channels: 1) Remove that channel from the sequence; or 2) make that channel 100% on during the entire sequence.

Also does the animation sequence need to have a "loop" in it or does just having the channel set as full on for the entire animation sequence set it for the entire show

The main show won't start until all the "Startup" sequences finish. If you have a loop in your startup sequence, then your show will never start.

[-klb-]

I might also add a cleanup sequence. This is just a really short sequence (1/4 second maybe) that is all on for the channels you want to be on, and all off for the channels that you want to be off going into the next sequence.

This will ensure that an on command is sent to all your static channels once per sequence during the show. Otherwise, if a controller looses power, those static elements won't come back on until the show is restarted, or one of the sequences that contains the channel is played. With the cleanup sequence, those channels would come back on at the end of the current sequence.

[beeiilll]

I Pm'd Steven and asked him a question and he reminded me that others may also have this question as well, so here is my questions to him and his reply. I sometimes forget that people on this forum have more of a tendency to check on threads as well as respond to questions more than once whereas I have found that on some of the other forums that I monitor people will read a thread and never go back to it again.

My appologies to all for not just asking this here on the board and a special Thank You to Steven for his explanation of this.


Hi Steven

Thank you for your help on the static channel explanation for my display.

I have a question though.

A lot of other people have said to run the animation sequence to control the static elements in the background folder rather than the startup folder? Why there instead of the startup folder?

Do you know the difference between the 2 folders other than the startup folder runs before the show? Does the background folder get checked all the time by the show for things while the show is running?

I do want to be able to update sequences while my display is on this year to incorporate my static elements into the show sequences but obviously adding 150 static elements to one sequence and setting those elements to react to the music will take some time. So I am thinking that I will probably only get a couple of songs resequenced to include the static elements this year.

The rest of the time I will have the elements just turned on for the duration of a show and then shutoff when the show ends. I do understand that I should not include the static elements into sequences until I am ready to use that sequence in the show or I will have to set the element to "full on" for the duration of the sequence if I do have it in the sequence.

And his reply:

(You could have asked this on the original topic. I'm sure there are other people who have the same question...)

Anyway... All the sequences in the background folder run during the entire show. They even run while the startup and shutdown sequences are running. Background sequences are treated a little differently than sequences in other tabs. They all get an implicit loop, so that they start again from the beginning as soon as they reach the end.

In other tabs, there is the "Turn used channels off..." box. However, background sequences don't turn channels off when they reach the end (unless the channel is explicitly turned off with a fade or OFF). Channels in background sequences are all turned off when the show ends. You can't change that.

The Startup sequences only run once when the show starts. Unlike the background sequences, the startup sequences can be either musical or animation.

The rest of the show (Musical and Animation) doesn't start until all the startup sequences are done. Unlike the background sequences, you have the option of leaving a channel in a startup sequence on, until another sequence turns it off (or the controller loses power).

Last year, in an earlier version of LOR2, the "Turn used channels..." option did not exist. It always turned all (used) channels in a sequence off when the sequence ended. ("Used" means the channel is in the sequence. It doesn't mean that the channel was actually turned on.)

Therefore, the only way to keep a radio sign, or something like that, on all the time was to put it in the background sequence. In the current version, we have more options.

One disadvantage of using a channel in a background sequence is that you will get unpredictable results if you also use the channel in a musical sequence. For example, if you have a 1 minute background sequence that leaves a channel on, and you turn that channel off in a musical sequence, it will get turned back on sometime between 0 and 60 seconds, depending on when the background sequence restarts. This means you can't have 100% control of that channel from your musical sequence. That's why I recommend controlling the static channels using a startup and shutdown sequence.

As an aside, LOR1 would let you update a musical sequence in the sequences folder while the show was running. It would play your new version when it came around to that sequence. LOR2 seems to load the entire show into memory, so you can't play a new version of a sequence without restarting a show. There was a rumor they were going to "fix" this in the future.

I've been rambling. I hope I answered your question. Let me (or the whole group) know if you have more.

--
Steve

[beeiilll]

Well I just tried a test run of my show and the adding of a static sequence to the startup field didn't work. As soon as the first show fires up the static lights portion of the lights will turn off.

Even putting a short turn on command on the end of a sequence didn't work either. As soon as the next song starts all lights go off and then the ones in the actual sequence that is running will run, but the static ones stay off.

I even tried a cleanup sequence inbetween songs, but that didn't work either.

Have to add all the static elements into each sequence and run them from within I guess.

Bummer since my show starts on Tuesday and I have 115 elements to add to each sequence. :shock:

Gonna be a long night tonight and a lot of coffee, but the show will start at any rate.

I just wanted to revive this thread and let others know.

[Steven]

I know I'm repeating myself, but please double-check: You did un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" option in all (including the Musical) tabs, right?

I set up several "Static" channels this way in my show, and it seems to be working fine. I'm running LOR 2.6.0.

[chadh]

If you use a background sequence it should work. Only put the channels that you want static in the background sequence. Also, delete the channels that you want static from your musical sequence. The background sequence only need to be about a minute long and have a solid on command.


Edit: After rereading through your post I noticed that you wanted to add sequencing to some of your static portion so the background sequence would not work for that.

[beeiilll]

Steven wrote:

I know I'm repeating myself, but please double-check: You did un-check the "Turn used lights off at the end of each sequence" option in all (including the Musical) tabs, right?

I set up several "Static" channels this way in my show, and it seems to be working fine. I'm running LOR 2.6.0.

Yes I did un-check the boxes option in all of the tabs, but it still doesn't work.

I'm running LOR 2.6.0 also with the firmware on the controllers at 4.30 on all of them.

I put the static sequence which I made a minute long at first and then tried to shorten it to 30 seconds and then to 10 seconds just to try it with no difference in the startup folder right after my opening sequence which is a voiceover from the demented elf that is a minute long and Unchecked the boxes in each tab for turn lights off.

I even tried to use the static lights on sequence as a "cleanup sequence" after it did not work while trying to run the show, but it still would not work.

The static elements would come on during the startup sequence but as soon as the first song sequence starts they shutoff.

With the cleanup sequence in place they would come on when it ran but shut off as soon as the next sequence would start.
Does this static startup sequence have to be longer than a minute and could it be shorter than a minute? I see where in the show setup that it "looks" like most things want to be at least a minute long when running a background or startup sequence?

[beeiilll]

Well I have solved the problem finally !!

Turns out it was an ID 10 error. Yes I'm a putz at this one.

I had used an opening sequence in the startup folder that I had already modified to have all the channels in it including the static ones. It appears that it was causing the problem since once I switched out that file with the old one without the static elements in it everything works great. I thought that I was using my old one, but must have switched things around when I was transferring my sequences from my desktop machine to my show machine.

Sorry for being an idiot on this one, but the bright side is that I sat up all last night working on things and was able to get all my songs modified to have all the channels in them including the static light things. I even got 3 of the songs modded to have the static elements working in those sequences as well (at least basically).

And I did do a renaming on things so this won't happen again anytime soon I hope.

So now I have new sequence files that I can work on over the course of the next few weeks to incorporate the static elements into active elements in my sequences and then replace the files in the show with the modded ones as I get them fixed.

This setup of having a static sequence in the startup folder to turn on elements and leave them on during the entire show works great after all.

I even have one new song that I did that has all the static elements in it being controlled and after that song runs, the static elements come back on full and stay on through the next few songs by turning on the static elements full on at the end of the sequence that contains them.

Thank you so much Steven for your help on this. The show will look great for this year by being able to do this.

This forum is such a great place to get help and info to be able to make some outstanding shows possible.

Merry Christmas to all and a Happy New Year.