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Pixie16 Added, Now CTB16PC Controllers Not Working All the time

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This year I added a Pixie16 Controller to my show and now I'm having a problem with a few of my regular controllers.

I'm running (1-10) CTB16PC controllers on Enhanced Network 1. The Pixie Controller (13) on Enhanced Network 2.

I'm using S5.3.8 Pro and a G4-MP3 Director w/4 Avail Networks.

Pixie16 controller is working great, but Controllers 1 and 10 are not responding to commands in my sequence. When using the Hardware program I can control the channels.

Any ideas as to whats going on here?

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1 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Controller Not Working)

2 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Appears Some Channels Not Working) 

3 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Appears Some Channels Not Working) 

4 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

5 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

6 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

7 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

8 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

9 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

10 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Controller Not Working)

13 - Pixie16 (Works As Intended)

All Controllers work using Hardware Software

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Aquaman said:

 

1 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Controller Not Working)

2 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Appears Some Channels Not Working) 

3 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Appears Some Channels Not Working) 

4 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

5 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

6 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

7 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

8 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

9 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works As Intended)

10 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Controller Not Working)

13 - Pixie16 (Works As Intended)

All Controllers work using Hardware Software

 

 

 

Two options

Split all of your G3 controllers into their own network and your older non Gen3'son a separate network or Use your old non G3 controllers at the end of the line.

And of course add them to another network 

Do not pay attention to HU when thinking "show". Anything or almost anthing will work in HU.

Also you NEED a red adapter for the pixie16 - no option there. It may work in HU and it may work in a show (black one) but its to late to figure it out when the show doesn't work correctly at "showtime" due to not having a red adapter.

If you need to buy adapters I suggest only buy red. They are backwards compatible. 

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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I'm wondering if the older boards are able to be upgraded to be G3? Is it just a chip change?

I changed my preview so Regular Network is no longer Enhanced and saved to a show. Made sure Reg is LOR and and Aux 1 is Enhanced. Pixel16 works perfect, but none of my controllers worked. They all should have worked. Now i'm confused!! I like the idea of going all G3!!

 

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15 minutes ago, Aquaman said:

I'm wondering if the older boards are able to be upgraded to be G3? Is it just a chip change?

I changed my preview so Regular Network is no longer Enhanced and saved to a show. Made sure Reg is LOR and and Aux 1 is Enhanced. Pixel16 works perfect, but none of my controllers worked. They all should have worked. Now i'm confused!! I like the idea of going all G3!!

 

Since I dont know S5 really cant tell you more than I did.

If you have the gen1's anywhere in the chain before the gen3's then anything after the first gen1 will not work. Unless you have 2 Gen 1's together.

What is the unit order in your chain? Not unit ID but controller ie; computer/ director - 

If the above order is your running order youdidnt stand a chance at a show. 

I would try 4-9 and your pixie16 on enhanced NW (aux A) 

All others on LOR REG (Non G3 controllers will not work or work well on an enhanced NW, perhaps end of the line) but since you have 2 networks my best advice is to do as this. Separate the non G3 and G3/ G3 compatible from each other. That should get your show going.

Did you try the G1 end of the line resolution? I did that before, but as I got more and more in to pixels I gave my best friend my older non G3 controllers. .

JR

Edited by dibblejr

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I have a Red Adapter coming tomorrow but i'm running my show on a G4-MP3 Director, not off my computer. Pixel16 is working perfect.

Its my other controllers not working correctly. 

 

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1 minute ago, Aquaman said:

I have a Red Adapter coming tomorrow but i'm running my show on a G4-MP3 Director, not off my computer. Pixel16 is working perfect.

Its my other controllers not working correctly. 

 

Cool on the red adapter. Sorry if I missed that part reading. Multi tasking.

As far as the G4 director, I do not own one but if it has multiple ports I would still separate the controllers based by compatibility.

JR

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11 minutes ago, Aquaman said:

I have a Red Adapter coming tomorrow but i'm running my show on a G4-MP3 Director, not off my computer. Pixel16 is working perfect.

Its my other controllers not working correctly. 

 

Your older (G1, G2) are speed and No -enhanced mode limited. OTOH The Pixie want SPEED and would like enhanced mode.

You need 1 net running 115K or slower and a Red (fast net) running 500K

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34 minutes ago, Aquaman said:

I'm wondering if the older boards are able to be upgraded to be G3? Is it just a chip change?

I changed my preview so Regular Network is no longer Enhanced and saved to a show. Made sure Reg is LOR and and Aux 1 is Enhanced. Pixel16 works perfect, but none of my controllers worked. They all should have worked. Now i'm confused!! I like the idea of going all G3!!

 

To your first question, NO.  It's not a chip change, it's an entirely new design.  No way to upgrade the older units.  Any that show V 4.3.2 are all V2 {Pre-Gen 3} Controllers and are limited to a maximum of 115K speed, NON-ENHANCED Network, these are usually kept on THEIR OWN NETWORK using a black USB485 adapter, the new G3's and your pixie 16 can operate at higher speeds, but I'm not sure of your pixie unit, it may require a speed of 1,000K, Enhanced Netwrok.  And you G3's are also limited to a MAXIMUM of 500K, Enhanced speeds and should be on their own network.

For everything you have to play well together, you need 3 separate networks, Regular for the Controllers with FWV: 4.3.2, 500K, Enhanced, AUX A for the G3 Controllers {FWV:1.09} and if the pixie is one that uses 1000K, Enhanced, it would be Aux B.

However if it's a different unit that is maxed at 500K, Enhanced, then it could be added to the Aux A Network and you would not need a 3rd Network for it.

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                                                 G4-Mp3 Director

                (Net 1)                                                                 (Net 2)

10 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32  (Bad)                                          ELL's

1 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32    (Bad)                                   13 - Pixie16 (Works Perfect) - 12 channels of 38 = 456 Pixels

                   |                                                                     (END OF NET 2)

             (LOR-REP)      

2 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Some Channels Not Working)     5 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works) 

6 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works)                                                 9 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works)

7 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works)                                                 4 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works)

8 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09 (Works)                                                 3 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32 (Some Channels Not Working) 

(End OF NET 1)                                                                         (END OF NET 1)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Aquaman
Modified - END OF NET 1

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Controllers 1, 2, 3, 10 and the ELL's cannot go on a enhanced high speed network as they are speed limited to 115K and below.

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19 hours ago, Aquaman said:

I'm running (1-10) CTB16PC controllers on Enhanced Network 1. The Pixie Controller (13) on Enhanced Network 2.

There is no such designation.  LOR networks are: Regular, AuxA, AuxB, AuxC, etc up to AuxO.  Any of those can be Enhanced or Non-Enhanced, and any of those can be at speeds of:  19.2K, 57.6K, 115.4K, 500.0K, or 1000.0K.  Enhanced and speed are not related.  In your defense, it would appear that the docs for a multi-network director, refer to networks a 1 & 2.  I personally have never even seen a director, so I know nothing about them other than a little bit I have read in manuals.  I'm not trying to be picky here, but correct information makes it far easier for us to help you. 

In your most recent post, you described your network fairly well, except I don't get what the ELLs are being used for.  I would change what you call network 1 to 115K non-enhanced and all your older controllers will work fine.  There are not enough channels there to choke a 115K non-enhanced network.  One potential gotcha however since you are running a Pro level license.  If you are using Motion Effects, you MUST have the controllers that make use of those Motion Effects on an enhanced network.  Therefore, if you are using ME with the older controllers, you only option is to upgrade the controllers.

 

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2 hours ago, k6ccc said:

There is no such designation.  LOR networks are: Regular, AuxA, AuxB, AuxC, etc up to AuxO.  Any of those can be Enhanced or Non-Enhanced, and any of those can be at speeds of:  19.2K, 57.6K, 115.4K, 500.0K, or 1000.0K.  Enhanced and speed are not related.  In your defense, it would appear that the docs for a multi-network director, refer to networks a 1 & 2.  I personally have never even seen a director, so I know nothing about them other than a little bit I have read in manuals.  I'm not trying to be picky here, but correct information makes it far easier for us to help you. 

In your most recent post, you described your network fairly well, except I don't get what the ELLs are being used for.  I would change what you call network 1 to 115K non-enhanced and all your older controllers will work fine.  There are not enough channels there to choke a 115K non-enhanced network.  One potential gotcha however since you are running a Pro level license.  If you are using Motion Effects, you MUST have the controllers that make use of those Motion Effects on an enhanced network.  Therefore, if you are using ME with the older controllers, you only option is to upgrade the controllers.

 

Jim, You are correct on where I said Network 1,2. I was going off the face of the Director where it has Net 1, Net 2, Net 3, and Net 4. In my setup, Net 1 is Regular, Net 2 is Aux A, and Net 3 is Aux B.

Im running an ELL on my Pixel16 for a Ferris wheel. 

 

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1 hour ago, Aquaman said:

Im running an ELL on my Pixel16 for a Ferris wheel.

ELL's can't be on an Enhanced Network or 500K, they are limited {I think to 115K, NON-Enhanced} and as far as I've read, and Ell's will not work with a Pixel Controller.   So I think that's why it's not working, put the Pixel Controller for the tree on it's own red HS Adapter {500K, Enhanced, AUX B} directly to the Pixel Controller and your issue should go away.  Take the ELL completely out of your pixel configuration.

Edited by Orville

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Can a ELL keep up with a Pixie? Any Pixie running a show, let alone a 16

Aquaman: you have 4 ports? Why not use them ALL?

1) put all the Gen1,2 (those with the 4.x FW) on 1 or 2 ports. <=115K

2) The Gent3 (the FW 1.x) on a port (115K>)

and that Pixie on the last fast  <struck> Orvill Ninjad me

 

 

Edited by TheDucks

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2 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Can a ELL keep up with a Pixie? Any Pixie running a show, let alone a 16

Aquaman: you have 4 ports? Why not use them ALL?

1) put all the Gen1,2 (those with the 4.x FW) on 1 or 2 ports. <=115K

2) The Gent3 (the FW 1.x) on a port (115K>)

and that Pixie on the last fast  <struck> Orvill Ninjad me

 

 

This taken directly from the ELL page: {Says the same on both ELL Single and ELL Pair pages.

WARNING --- USING PIXELS The ELLs do not support the high speeds and ELOR protocol required for pixels. They work great with our 16 channel AC controllers and RGB flood lights. Also work well with our singing trees!

PIXEL OPTION You can connect Multi-network G4 show directors together with ELLs. This allows you to split your pixel show across multiple directors which are synchronized via ELLs.

If you need more info the pages are located here where you can read datasheets, manual, etc.:

Easy Light Linker {Single}

Easy Light Linker {Pair}

So it appears this can be done using a G4 Director, anything less and I'm supposing it won't work since it specifically states G4 Directors. {Wonder if that's a typo and they meant N4-G3MP3-g3 Directors}?

So you may need to upgrade your Director before you can successfully get your tree working.

 

Edited by Orville
g4 should have been g3 at the end of the N4-G3MP3g3.

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1 hour ago, TheDucks said:

Can a ELL keep up with a Pixie? Any Pixie running a show, let alone a 16

Aquaman: you have 4 ports? Why not use them ALL?

1) put all the Gen1,2 (those with the 4.x FW) on 1 or 2 ports. <=115K

2) The Gent3 (the FW 1.x) on a port (115K>)

and that Pixie on the last fast  <struck> Orvill Ninjad me

 

 

In short - No, that's why I got rid of my ELLs. 

JR

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Mr. P, thank you for your help in solving my problem.

I separated my older controllers and G3 controllers into separate networks and my ELL that controls my Pixel controller on my Ferris wheel.

Total of 3 Networks, (Regular, Aux A, and Aux B)

Dibblejr, FERRIS WHEEL = you cannot directly wire into the controller. i'm using a commutator to put 110v on the wheel but have to use an ELL to put the network signal on the wheel.  I can tell you that the ELL can handle the Pixel16, 12 channels, 38 pixels per channel = 456 Pixels total Flawlessly.

I'm also running The ELL @ 57.6K Enhanced Mode. :)

 

 

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This is my current Network Configuration and its working.

 

                                                                    G4-Mp3 Director

                (Net 1, Regular)               (Net 2, Aux A)                    (Net 3, AuxB)                   (Net4 )

                (LOR 57.6k)                  (Lor/ELOR 115.4k)             Lor/ELOR 115.4k)           (NOT USED)

02 -  CTB16PC Ver. 4.32            01 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09                  ELL's                     

06 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32             03 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09                 Pixel16, 456 Pixels

07 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32             04 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09      (End of Net 3, Aux B)

08 - CTB16PC Ver. 4.32             05 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09

    (End of Net 1, Reg)                09 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09

                                                       10 - 16PCG3 Ver 1.09

                                                       (End of Net 2, Aux A)

 

1

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On 11/29/2019 at 11:16 PM, Orville said:

To your first question, NO.  It's not a chip change, it's an entirely new design.  No way to upgrade the older units.  Any that show V 4.3.2 are all V2 {Pre-Gen 3} Controllers and are limited to a maximum of 115K speed, NON-ENHANCED Network, these are usually kept on THEIR OWN NETWORK using a black USB485 adapter, the new G3's and your pixie 16 can operate at higher speeds, but I'm not sure of your pixie unit, it may require a speed of 1,000K, Enhanced Netwrok.  And you G3's are also limited to a MAXIMUM of 500K, Enhanced speeds and should be on their own network.

For everything you have to play well together, you need 3 separate networks, Regular for the Controllers with FWV: 4.3.2, 500K, Enhanced, AUX A for the G3 Controllers {FWV:1.09} and if the pixie is one that uses 1000K, Enhanced, it would be Aux B.

However if it's a different unit that is maxed at 500K, Enhanced, then it could be added to the Aux A Network and you would not need a 3rd Network for it.

I just want to thank you for this response, and the others in this thread. After years of running a standard network show, I added a pixel tree this year and was having this same issue. I spent hours troubleshooting. I Googled every possible thing I could think of, I watched over an hour of videos, I was quite literally in tears because I couldn't figure out why, despite the fact that HU could see every controller, only my Pixie props were working. I saw this response and a light bulb went off. I immediately plugged in my black adapter (I had everything running on the red HS), moved everything but the pixie to that one, changed the Network setup to put the Pixie on Aux A and reduce the speed of the regular network back down to 115 and BAM my show is running flawlessly. So, I want to personally thank you as, it seems in this hobby there are a lot of people who don't want to help others to this level of detail and your response here saved my show (and probably my marriage LOL).

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5 hours ago, HappyMommy said:

I just want to thank you for this response, and the others in this thread. After years of running a standard network show, I added a pixel tree this year and was having this same issue. I spent hours troubleshooting. I Googled every possible thing I could think of, I watched over an hour of videos, I was quite literally in tears because I couldn't figure out why, despite the fact that HU could see every controller, only my Pixie props were working. I saw this response and a light bulb went off. I immediately plugged in my black adapter (I had everything running on the red HS), moved everything but the pixie to that one, changed the Network setup to put the Pixie on Aux A and reduce the speed of the regular network back down to 115 and BAM my show is running flawlessly. So, I want to personally thank you as, it seems in this hobby there are a lot of people who don't want to help others to this level of detail and your response here saved my show (and probably my marriage LOL).

I don’t think you problem had anything to do with the red adapter. The red adapter works with ALL generations of LOR controllers.

It was all a speed and compatibility problem.

The red adapters are the way to go.

Happy you got it figured out but as stated the red adapter , unless the black adapter was plugged Ed in to your HS network and pixie16 had nothing to do with swapping it around.

JR

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13 hours ago, HappyMommy said:

I just want to thank you for this response, and the others in this thread. After years of running a standard network show, I added a pixel tree this year and was having this same issue. I spent hours troubleshooting. I Googled every possible thing I could think of, I watched over an hour of videos, I was quite literally in tears because I couldn't figure out why, despite the fact that HU could see every controller, only my Pixie props were working. I saw this response and a light bulb went off. I immediately plugged in my black adapter (I had everything running on the red HS), moved everything but the pixie to that one, changed the Network setup to put the Pixie on Aux A and reduce the speed of the regular network back down to 115 and BAM my show is running flawlessly. So, I want to personally thank you as, it seems in this hobby there are a lot of people who don't want to help others to this level of detail and your response here saved my show (and probably my marriage LOL).

Very happy I could help you, and really very happy your show is now up and running flawlessly! :D

 

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I have a similar issue as HappyMommy…. Had (4) CTB16PC's running flawlessly on the REGULAR net. Added a Pixie16, changed REGULAR net to ENHANCED.... Pixie16 worked OK, but CTB16PC's stopped working. Changed REGULAR net back to recommended 56K, recreated the show editor. …
ISSUE 1: CTB16PCs still don't work.???  

I also noticed that when I altered a working sequence, saved it and created a PLAYBACK file, it generated two files:  one with an extension of ".play.lms" and the second with an extension of ".play.lms.pe.lid"???   ISSUE 2: Is this because I changed the REGULAR net to ENHANCED and modified the sequence?  

 

 

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MikeToo,

 

Changing a network from Regular to Enhanced does not create a file ".play.lms.pe.lid". Not sure what creates this.

 

 

 

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