Music Permissions

[Paul Noel]

Can anyone tell me what the position is regarding copyright? Do I have to obtain performance permission to use music from a CD - I have heard that the first person to use "Wizards in winter" was sued. Thanks.

[lkcubsrule]

Paul Philips wrote:

I have heard that the first person to use "Wizards in winter" was sued. Thanks.

I don't know of this being true. I know of a few people that have actually written into the BMI, or Broadcast Music, Inc. and requested information regarding this topic. As long as you are not profiting at all, it's perfectly legal to play the music and you're not required to pay any fees. As soon as you start charging (for a commercial show, etc.) you get into an entire new realm of royalty fees and rules.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Shadrack Water Sports, but they put on multiple HUGE drive through displays in Tennessee (So they charge $x/car). They actually won the LOR contest in previous years. In order to combat royalty fees, they composed and recorded music themselves -- so they had no copyright issues! But mind you, they're a huge commercial entity with no cap on their budget...

[Paul Noel]

Many thanks, Luke.
Paul

[jim6918]

Pretty sure the best way to stay safe it to not make a profit, and make sure you can show that you have purchased a legitimate copy of the audio file. Amazon is good for this since you can track your purchased way, way back.

[Paul Noel]

Thanks, Jim for the good advice.
Paul

[displaysinmotion_will]

lkcubsrule wrote:

I don't know of this being true. I know of a few people that have actually written into the BMI, or Broadcast Music, Inc. and requested information regarding this topic. As long as you are not profiting at all, it's perfectly legal to play the music and you're not required to pay any fees. As soon as you start charging (for a commercial show, etc.) you get into an entire new realm of royalty fees and rules.

I usually stay in the shadows but this subject has taken my interest. Technically even if you are not profiting or charging admission that does not exclude you from paying royalties. I have been a member of bmi for the life of my display (6 years) you are promoting a "public display" using copyrighted music. buying the cd or MP3 does not grant you permission to transmit that music to the public. I see your from Indiana as well, ill share with you my most recent license filing with you, to give you some insight. By doing a light display using music you are classified as a presenter/promoter.you'll notice two separate classifications: events with paid admission and free or benefit events and it is calculated based off of actual or estimated viewing capacity (how many people will be seing the display) now the key is that each night your display is running is considered an event. see the attached images message me if you want more info



Attached files

[displaysinmotion_will]

2nd page

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[displaysinmotion_will]

3rd page

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[displaysinmotion_will]

now this page just shows my company name and the address of the location that is licensed

Attached files

[displaysinmotion_will]

one last thing, to be sure that the title of the song you are using is copyrighted and to what affiliation use bmi's repertoire search Not all music is licensed through bmi there is also ascap, the amercian society of composers authors and publishers. there are some songs i use that require a license from them



bmi repertoire search: http://www.bmi.com/search/

ascap repertoire search: http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?mode=search

[GS]

Enforcement is out there. One site of mine got a visit from ASCAP (nothing to do with lights and everything was compliant)

Would the ASCAP police care if BMI music was playing or vice versa ?

ASCAP publishes a list of "their" top 25 holiday songs, does BMI publish a list too? That's the biggest complaint about the ASCAP list, it does not include BMI, no surprise.

This is my general summary of coverage, much more could be added -

BMI - TSO, Mariah Carey

ASCAP - most, not all, the classics

No argument here on this topic, rules are rules. However, for the typical animated home that is not collecting money, gifts, etc, this topic should be very low on the worry list IMHO.

[jim6918]

I am not sure that the sky is falling here, but this is darn troubling if you ask me. If I read the Indiana contract clearly, I would have to pay $15/song/event. Assuming that each night's show is a separate event, that would be 20 songs X $15 = $300 X 40 "events" = $12,000. And who the hell knows, maybe if your show repeats 10 times during the night that might be 10 "events" per night.

I am not planning any changes, but to say there is no worry based on this info (assuming it's all correct) is putting it mildly. You don't have to go back too many years to see the huge lawsuits and judgements the Recording Industry won in the early 2000's against little kids and grandmothers (including at least one dead one) in P2P file sharing actions. Not so sure this is anything different.

All the more reason to avoid publicity in my opinion.

[displaysinmotion_will]

jim6918 wrote:

I am not sure that the sky is falling here, but this is darn troubling if you ask me. If I read the Indiana contract clearly, I would have to pay $15/song/event. Assuming that each night's show is a separate event, that would be 20 songs X $15 = $300 X 40 "events" = $12,000. And who the hell knows, maybe if your show repeats 10 times during the night that might be 10 "events" per night.

actually its not based per song, my license from bmi is a "blanket" license that covers any works published trough bmi. Now on to the fee itself, for a viewing capacity of 250 or less its 15.00 per night for me so over the 35 nights i have a performance i pay bmi approxmately $525 year. Paying that at one time get pretty expensive so what i do is when i send my quaterly report to bmi i send a check for $125 at the same time and they just add it to my account as a credit so i dont have to pay that fee at one time.

[jim6918]

kingsislandtechservices wrote:

jim6918 wrote:

I am not sure that the sky is falling here, but this is darn troubling if you ask me. If I read the Indiana contract clearly, I would have to pay $15/song/event. Assuming that each night's show is a separate event, that would be 20 songs X $15 = $300 X 40 "events" = $12,000. And who the hell knows, maybe if your show repeats 10 times during the night that might be 10 "events" per night.

actually its not based per song, my license from bmi is a "blanket" license that covers any works published trough bmi. Now on to the fee itself, for a viewing capacity of 250 or less its 15.00 per night for me so over the 35 nights i have a performance i pay bmi approxmately $525 year. Paying that at one time get pretty expensive so what i do is when i send my quaterly report to bmi i send a check for $125 at the same time and they just add it to my account as a credit so i dont have to pay that fee at one time.

I am not sure that spreading out $525 over four "easy payments of $125" is much consolation.

[displaysinmotion_will]

I understand and as previously stated by GS the likelyhood of you being contacted is very low on the list. now the concern for me is after 6 years of adding to my display, 43 controllers later, projectors, dmx equipment, i have a solid 20 thousand + dollar investment that I dont want to loose if I was sued for copyright infringment, call me paranoid but I would rather be safe than sorry.

[lightzilla]

Interesting.

[jim6918]

lightzilla wrote:

Right now I am asking permission from individual singer/song writers and all of them save 1 person granted permission.

Are you talking about mainstream singers/song writers? Like TSO, Mannheim, Elvis, Mariah, etc.? You are very lucky to get them to even respond?

[GS]

jim6918 wrote:

All the more reason to avoid publicity in my opinion.

I think that is a very good position/opinion.

Otherwise, advertise and collect to your hearts content, just be sure you are compliant.

Again, the law is the law, but most of us are having fun and spreading joy at no charge for only 30+ nights. I have zero concerns about my home display/music this year and it will be a traffic stopping fireball. Major pay per view productions/sites will get the most attention.

[jim6918]

jim6918 wrote:

lightzilla wrote:

Right now I am asking permission from individual singer/song writers and all of them save 1 person granted permission.

Are you talking about mainstream singers/song writers? Like TSO, Mannheim, Elvis, Mariah, etc.? You are very lucky to get them to even respond?

Sorry lightzilla, guess I caught you in the middle of editing your post. Didn't mean to misquote you.

[Mike Manzara]

Actually I sent a letter to Manhiem and they responded. In essence they did not have a problem with me using their music but did request I send a copy of the video for their song.