mhammond1 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Team,What do you think about this. Create boxes like we normally do, but instead of putting regular recepticals on the end, put waterproof breakout boxes that have GFI's. I'm thinking this will prevent a water short during the rain from tripping the entire box, and it will just trip that GFI. That will help me isolate which plug is giving me a problem and won't ruin the entire show, just that one strand....Will I have a problem putting the GFI on the light side of a LOR box, instead of the power side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Not a problem from an LOR standpoint, but code requires the outlets feeding your boxes are also GFCI, and there's nothing to prevent the box-power GFCI from tripping before the "light-side" GFCI. In fact, there's a good chance it will trip first, since it's getting the sum-imbalance from all 8 or 16 channels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhammond1 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 thanks for the tip. I do have GFI's at the side of the house. I would keep all of my boxes plugged into there. I'm just wondering a good way to isolate a tripped strand and not take out the entire box. I have six houses hooked up this year, and it's really annoying when entire houses go dark, just because one bad apple spoils the bunch....i'm also liking the idea of creating these breakout boxes and running those the long distance from the LOR boxes into different areas around the yard, alieviating the need to run 10's of long extention cords all over the place. I would create two or four breakout boxes and run those to the key areas (left side of the steps in the bushes, right side of the lawn, etc). This way I can keep the LOR boxes at the side of the house, out of the way, and attached to the padlock with the cement blocks to prevent theft..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cenote Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Tim Fischer wrote: Not a problem from an LOR standpoint, but code requires the outlets feeding your boxes are also GFCI, and there's nothing to prevent the box-power GFCI from tripping before the "light-side" GFCI. In fact, there's a good chance it will trip first, since it's getting the sum-imbalance from all 8 or 16 channels...Tim, would it be code, if you mount the boxes in side a garage and plug them in a regular outlet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhammond1 Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 my garage outlets, except for the last one, are all regular outlets, but that is because the last one is a GFI, which, I'm told, makes them all GFI's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanward Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Garage outlets supposed to be GFCI. Unless your home is older, where it is grandfathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 The intent of the current code is that any outlet where you are likely to plug in an outdoor appliance, (or appliance to be used outdoors) like an electric string trimmer, work lamp, or pretty much anything else for use in the yard should be GFCI protected. Apparently in some areas, it is difficult to convince inspectors that you are allowed a non GFCI outlet in the garage for a refrigerator or freezer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwaldrep Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 mhammond1 wrote: my garage outlets, except for the last one, are all regular outlets, but that is because the last one is a GFI, which, I'm told, makes them all GFI's.I hope you mean the First one is GFI. The first meaning working from the breaker box, out, the first needs to be GFI, and everything after that, if connected to the load side of the GFI is protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner518 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Here's what I did. I have the brown 20amp plug on one 20amp breaker and the grey on another. and the left side of the controller plugs into one and the right into the other. that way I can figure out which set of 8 keeps tripping my plug or breaker, if need be. I have not had any issues yet. Most of the time if I have any issues its the fuse that blows first before anything else! I have three pictures total. The first one is what the boxes look like, second is what the outlets look like, and the third is what the breakers look like. Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner518 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 . Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgardner518 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 . Attached files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhammond1 Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 i guess it matters if you are standing looking at my garage or in my garage looking out. physically, the outlet furtherest from the panel is the GFI, but I believe the wire runs from the panel all the way to the furthest outlet and then back... So, your comment would be correct.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 cenote wrote: Tim Fischer wrote: Not a problem from an LOR standpoint, but code requires the outlets feeding your boxes are also GFCI, and there's nothing to prevent the box-power GFCI from tripping before the "light-side" GFCI. In fact, there's a good chance it will trip first, since it's getting the sum-imbalance from all 8 or 16 channels...Tim, would it be code, if you mount the boxes in side a garage and plug them in a regular outlet?Garages also require GFCI's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 mhammond1 wrote: i guess it matters if you are standing looking at my garage or in my garage looking out. physically, the outlet furtherest from the panel is the GFI, but I believe the wire runs from the panel all the way to the furthest outlet and then back... So, your comment would be correct.. Push the test button-- if the other outlets go dead, they're all protected by that GFCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmoore60 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 -klb- wrote: The intent of the current code is that any outlet where you are likely to plug in an outdoor appliance, (or appliance to be used outdoors) like an electric string trimmer, work lamp, or pretty much anything else for use in the yard should be GFCI protected. Apparently in some areas, it is difficult to convince inspectors that you are allowed a non GFCI outlet in the garage for a refrigerator or freezer.. Last year I attended a NEC course. In the 2008 version of the code the non GFCI outlet was not exempt any longer. In other words according to the 2008 NEC all receptacles in a garage are to be GFCI protected, even those use for garage door openers.Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhammond1 Posted December 11, 2009 Author Share Posted December 11, 2009 yes, if I press the test button, all the outlets in the garage go dead.BTW, I just remembered GFCI's are about $10/piece. Just to do one LOR would be $160 at the ends... hmm. I may have to rethink this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckd Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Tim's absolutely right though, your main GFI will blow first, because it's almost never 'just one strand', but rather the sum total of all the strands. When you get rain, every strand increases it's leakage current. While each channel may well be under 4 ma leakage, they can all add up to way over the main trip current.The only real way is to invest in a Fluke 360 Current Leakage Tester, and test each strand. Of course, if you're blowing your main GFI, you'd have to plug in the LOR to a non-GFI outlet temporarily to find the offender. For me, the 360 is a must-have, but a bit expensive (about $640).Judging from the sheer volume of people with GFI problems, seems like it's a no brainer to invest in, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanward Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi Chuck. The leakage tester is a great tool to have, but at that much money, means less lights for next year!The cheapest GFCI outlets we have here on the Big Island of Hawaii are $15 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melwelch Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 GFIs are a religion around here.... Most of the followers will crucify you if you do not bow to the GFI god...So here goes.... Do not put GFIs in and save the money and heartaches.... All this BS about if you do not have GFIs you will die... Just like man made global warming it is all hype with no facts... Google Christmas light deaths.... How many died?Search the forums for all the problems people have with GFIs... If you are foolish enough to cut corners on extension cords and are relying on GFIs to save your tail then you are an accident waiting to happen.... Spend the money on good extention cords made to be outside with the proper insulation.Over 40 years of Christmas decorations with no GFIs and still no deaths.... go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Puryear Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 You are Right! In the 2008 code they removed the gfci exceptions. All residential outlets are either GFCI or ARC-FAULT protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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