George Simmons Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Does anyone know what trick I'm missing trying to connect controllers with phone cable? I've got one controller with a damaged cat5 in/out jack and where the controller is located it can't be on the end of a daisy chain. So I need to approach that particular controller with a telephone cable in and use a cat5 out the jack that isn't damaged. I don't seem to be successful trying to insert the phone cable into one of the output jacks on the previous controller in line. The phone cable just doesn't seem to want to seat properly and no connection with downline controllers can be created. Advice anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Roten Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 George,The when using phone cable the input must be the jack on the left. Output using phone cable or cat 5 can be either the middle or right jack.Why not just move that controller to the end of the line? It would only take a few min to change the ID numbers. This would allow you to use the controller this season and then send it in to LOR to be repaired for next year. I am sure others can give you instructions on how to repair the jack yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Getting the RJ11 in a RJ-45 is one of those things that some people seem to find easier than others. In theory, if you get it started close to centered, the contacts in the jack will go into the grooves in the plug that the contacts are in, and both hold the plug centered, and hold the contacts from the jack in alignment with the plug.Is it possible that your problem is that the damaged jack is shorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Now correct me if I am wrong. But all 3 jacks are neither input nor output jacks. But they will work for either purpose. meaning I can bring in a cat5 and go out either RJ-11 or cat5 cable. It does not matter. Thus I can come in cat 5 leave as a phone cable and go into the next box as a phone cable and leave on a cat5 cable.So, there is no need to put a Rj-11 into a RJ-45 socket. Just dont try to put a RJ-45 plug into a RJ-11 socket. Just aint going to happen.So, what am I missing here? What seems to be the problem?|-cat5------------|--|---phone-------|--|---cat5------| |--| = controllerleave one box on cat5 enter next box ast cat5 leave on phone cord. Enter next box on phone cord, and leave on cat 5 for the next box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Fischer Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Max-Paul wrote:Now correct me if I am wrong. But all 3 jacks are neither input nor output jacks. But they will work for either purpose. meaning I can bring in a cat5 and go out either RJ-11 or cat5 cable. It does not matter. Thus I can come in cat 5 leave as a phone cable and go into the next box as a phone cable and leave on a cat5 cable.So, there is no need to put a Rj-11 into a RJ-45 socket. Just dont try to put a RJ-45 plug into a RJ-11 socket. Just aint going to happen.So, what am I missing here? What seems to be the problem?|-cat5------------|--|---phone-------|--|---cat5------| |--| = controllerleave one box on cat5 enter next box ast cat5 leave on phone cord. Enter next box on phone cord, and leave on cat 5 for the next box.The reason that there is a separate RJ-11 jack for input is that phone cords are always wired as "crossover", and ethernet cords usually are wired as straight-through. Therefore the RJ-11 does the "crossing back" for you.I use phone cable for virtually all my network. I've never had issues lining up the plug in the output RJ-45 jack, but I haven't tested my network yet this year so I hope I didn't jinx myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Simmons Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 KLB, Tim - I guess it must be my own clutziness causing the problems. It looked pretty straightforward but when I started having issues I thought maybe I was missing a step or an adaptor or something. Last year I used just cat5.Alan, I wish it was as easy as just picking up the controller and moving it. This particular controller is mounted inside the garage with no case surrounding it. The dangles are specifically sized for the items plugging in and is very specifically set up for the precise space it occupies.Max - I don't know about any other controllers since I use CBT16PC's exclusively, but on these, the left jack isn't in/out. It's in only. Therein lies the obstacle. It would be easier indeed if it WAS in/out but that's not the way it is. The center and right jack are in/out.Thanks all. Looks like I'll just have to keep trying until I finally get the phone cord seated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale J Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Hey George, probably not the issue but check the end of the phone cord i have seen some of the plugs have the little wires they use for the connection be twisted or out of there slots and that will not let you plug them in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 George Simmons wrote: Max - I don't know about any other controllers since I use CBT16PC's exclusively, but on these, the left jack isn't in/out. It's in only. Therein lies the obstacle. It would be easier indeed if it WAS in/out but that's not the way it is. The center and right jack are in/out.As RS485 is a single pair that carries both transmit and receive (or in and out if you prefer), I believe the signals on the "phone" connector are the same as the "ethernet" connector.Regards,Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Just to clear things up.. When using phone cord with the typical rolled pin out, one end must go to a RJ-11, and the other to a RJ-45. That is the only true restriction.The reason the RJ-11 is usually considered to be in, is that all of the LOR RS-485 adapters are RJ-45 connectors. So to hook everything up with phone cord, you go from the adapter, in the RJ-11. Out one of the RJ-45 jacks, and in the next RJ-11. It really is not directionally restricted, and it is only different from the RJ-45 jacks in that the pin out order is reversed...So a normal phone cord between two RJ-45 jacks winds up messing up the signalling polarity, and shorts ground to power... And phone cord between two RJ-11 jacks does the same thing. It is just safer to always consider the RJ-11 in, and RJ-45 as out, so that you don't wind up shorting things out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Thanks klb for clairifying the problem with using store bought phone cables. So, if one was to roll their own phone cable. One could make sure that the cable is a patch and not a cross over. Then they could do as I suggested. But if they buy a store made phone cable, then they would only be able to use it as an out RJ-45 in RJ-11 configuration.BTW if you have a 6 pin cable connector. Is that now known as an RJ-12? I saw on that one photo what appears to be a 3 pair connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-klb- Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 The RJ-12 designation vaguely sounds familiar, but I really can't remember. The last couple of desk phones at work have been RJ-45 cables, and the ones at home are cordless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale J Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 check out this thread for the difference on the RJ45/RJ11 in's and out's on the lor controllershttp://lightorama.mywowbb.com/forum76/17805.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max-Paul Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 So, what we are saying here is that if a fellow has the means to get a telco cable made so that the wire will go from pin 1 to pin1 and so on for the other 3 wires / pins. Then one could put a telco cable to the RJ-11/12 jack on both controllers, Right?Thus back to my earlier statement. None of the Jacks are only input or output. As can be seen in the drawing that was posting in the above hot link to a discussion that went on about this time last year. All of the signal carrying pins from each connector is paralleled to each connector. So, all connectors are equals, none are truely assigned an in or out function.But the cables connecting to the connector has to be wired in a proper manner. But will admit, was not aware that normal telco cables were rolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan C Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Correct. All the connections are there, apart from the "loop through" that some use for an alarm (which only exists between the two RJ45s). You just need to ensure that the lead you make from the phone cable has the connections in the correct order depending on what you are trying to achieve. If you have more than one version of these leads, it would make sense to label these cables such that you know which ones are straight, and which are crossed.Regards,Alan.Edit: I guess you could also use phone cable with the RJ45 connectors and just use the middle four connections on each plug if you have loads of phone cable. In this case, all cores will be straight, with the two pairs being pins 3&6, and pins 4&5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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