EDM outdoor use

[rickswa]

Hello,

I just purchased the LOR 1602W so that I can use an SD card to run the show and don't need to run wires into the house. I am looking at buying the EDM FM transmitter but they tell me the optional enclosure is not weatherproof. Has anyone had any luck mounting these outdoors? The area I would put it in is somewhat covered but I'm near Chicago so it gets pretty cold. Thanks for any help.

[iresq]

I would think any plastic container would work.

[George Simmons]

I got mine last year and wanted to mount it outside in a box and was advised directly from EDM that it can be fatal for them to freeze.

[taybrynn]

EDM does not reccomend using it outdoors.

It also isn't rated for low temperature use.

So I would avoid using it outdoors if at all possible.

Consider running the audio output back to the

EDM indoors ... using cat5 and baluns to extend

the audio up to 2000' for about $50. I have a post

on PC yesterday that shows a set of these for $45

which take rca L,R or 1/8" inputs ... and could extend

up to 2000' using regular cat5 cable, plugged into

a balun on either side.

[taybrynn]

Here is a partial repost from PC ...

Other folks I have talked with have even used baluns to take the audio signal from the computer to say the attic (using a cat5 cable) ... and then connect the audio from balun in that attic to the transmitter, and connect the antenna directly to the antenna in the attic. Its a pretty clever system (and way of extending the audio signal cable) ... and the stereo balun system is around $50, about the cost of a small amount of good coax.

Found a better priced unit (pair of baluns) for $45 that even has a mini audio input option: http://www.a1components.com/itemdisp...spx?item=12414

[Surfing4Dough]

taybrynn wrote:

Consider running the audio output back to the

EDM indoors ...

What about using a stereo extension cable to run back indoors if not going terribly far (~25ft)? It would be going from a garage to the house, so not directly outside, but the garage isn't heated. Can't imagine that if the distance isn't too far, that there would be too much signal loss. Thoughts?

Cable example: http://www.cablesnmor.com/stereo-extension-cables.html

[-klb-]

Actually, it is not so much about signal loss, as you can compensate by turning up the levels. It is more about signal gain. How much 60 Hz hum, and static does your cable pick up as an antenna? By using the baluns to convert from a ground referenced signal to a balanced signal, you gain the ability to make use of the noise rejection properties of twisted pair cable. You still loose signal with distance, but you only pick up a tiny fraction of the foreign signal that you otherwise would.

[Dennis Cherry]

Had my EDM outside in my display. Mounted inside a plastic enclosure similar to the LOR ones along with the mini-director.

No problem in the cold then again it did not get lower than 25 degrees.

Worked like a charm.

[rickswa]

Thanks so much for all the quick replies. I guess as cold as it can get here, maybe I should do the inside mount. BUT I do have to ask the obvious. What have you found as the best method to get the 1/8 audio output cable inside the home? I put 2 new dedicated outlets in this summer so I have an area where I can drill through but then once the hole is done, do you use PVC conduit with a cap so you can seal it off during the rest of the year? Also, if I do that, now I end up in my basement and faced with a difficult way of getting the transmitter to an "above ground" part of the house. I'm not sure the EDM would work well from a poured concrete basement. My plan was to just use the transmitter with the included "test" antenna since I just want to to broadcast in front of my house and not very far away. Also, this would keep me from having to try to run wires to an antenna. Any thoughts? Thank you again for all the helpful posts! I'm just really trying to avoid running wires back and forth from inside to outside of the house. There's really no way I can drill a hole through the house into the first or 2nd floor, or attic. I'm curious how you guys get it all done. thanks again.

[George Simmons]

rickswa wrote:

I'm not sure the EDM would work well from a poured concrete basement. Any thoughts?

I don't think it makes any difference where the transmitter itself is located, assuming electrical interference is not an issue. How well it works is more related to where your antenna is located and what type of antenna you use. A quick search of these pages will provide you with plenty of information on FM antennas.

[rickswa]

I just realized something. When my house was built, they installed an FM antenna in my attic with a run to the basement so I could use it with a whole house audio system. I know this is going to be a really dumb question for you guys, but would this antenna work to TRANSMIT the signal? I just dont understand if this would transmit AND receive signals. I've never used it, but obviously it was installed to RECEIVE fm signals. Thanks for the help.

[Brad Stucky]

rickswa wrote:

I just realized something. When my house was built, they installed an FM antenna in my attic with a run to the basement so I could use it with a whole house audio system. I know this is going to be a really dumb question for you guys, but would this antenna work to TRANSMIT the signal? I just dont understand if this would transmit AND receive signals. I've never used it, but obviously it was installed to RECEIVE fm signals. Thanks for the help.

It should work, however, if the antenna has a splitter on it (in order to provide a signal to more than one area in the house), you will want to remove it and make sure you have a direct connection from your transmitter to the antenna so that all the power from your transmitter is going directly to the antenna. The antenna cable also needs to be coax and not the old flat twin-lead antenna cable. If it's the old twin-lead 300 ohm cable, you will need to disconnect that and attach a 75ohm to 300ohm balun (adapter) at the antenna. Some of these are rather cheap in design so it's best to get a good one if it is needed. (Your local cable TV company may be able to help.) You can then attach your coax to that and run the other end to your transmitter. Make sure connections are clean and tight. Some transmitters are sensitive to being loaded properly. Damage can occur to the output stages if this isn't done correctly.

Another minor issue is whether or not the attic antenna is a directional or an omni-directional antenna. If it's directional, you may need to adjust the antenna position to provide the best signal in the direction needed. If it's an omni-directional antenna then there probably wouldn't be much change in repositioning the antenna.

Last year I used a homemade grounded-plane antenna located inside the house hanging from the ceiling, but I'm planning on using a vertically oriented folded dipole antenna this year in order to reduce the chance of damage to the transmitter from static electricity. There are many sites on the Internet that offer ideas for FM transmitting antennas. Just search for J-pole, slimjim, folded dipole, or grounded plane FM antenna plans or calculators. I believe most house attic FM antennas are a horizontally laid folded dipole of either a directional or omnidirectional design. As a transmitting antenna they are apparently very forgiving about what frequency is used and don't need the finer tuning that a J-pole, slimjim, or even the grounded plane may need in order to get out a good strong signal, but then again, the EDM transmitter certainly has more power than my Ramsey FM30, so you probably won't need to worry about the power issue. Hope this helps, and if any ham operators see any questionable data here, please chime in and set the facts straight.

[-klb-]

rickswa wrote:

I'm curious how you guys get it all done.

I approached it from a whole different direction. I already had an opening into the tiny attic that is above the back quarter of my rear entry garage, and behind the half height knee wall in the room above the rest of the garage. So I put in a wall plate in the wall of that room over the garage, and ran cable from that plate, through the insulation, and into the tiny attic. I will likely eventually put a wall plate in the garage ceiling. Then in season, I set up the show PC on the desk in the upstairs front hall that has a partial view of the show. I run cat 5 from there, down the hall, and plug it into the wall jack. Then I plug cable into the ceiling jack in the garage, out under the garage door, and around the house to the controllers. The transmitter and antenna sit there on the desk, about 15 feet from the front of the house.

Eventually, I want to put a wall plate at the desk, run cable up into the attic, across to the side where the controllers are, out the eave, and down the side of the house to a surface mounted outdoor wall plate. I'll probably put it in conduit down the side wall, and be running a few cables to the family room as well, since it is all basically the same place.

[pdowns]

EDM makes transmitters with both LED displays and LCD displays. LCD stands for "liquid crystal display" and yes, they literally have liquid (but not water) in them. And that's why they can get destroyed when at a very low temperature. But I would expect they'd need to get to -30 F before they were in real danger.

That may be a daily experience in Chicago!

Adding a small heater with a thermostat to the outdoor transmitter enclosure should be simpler than sending the sound back inside. I think that's what I would try. I'd consider getting one that has a heat tape from a pet store.

[Surfing4Dough]

This thread prompted me to email EDM and ask them about my situation on this issue. I am/was planning on using a mini-director and EDM on a timer together. Below is my question and their response:

My question to EDM:
Could you please answer a question for me regarding use of my EDM-LCD-RDS-EP. I was wondering what temperature I can operate this unit at without damaging it. I live in northern Ohio. I am using this for a Christmas display (late November through 1st week of January). Outdoor low temperatures could range from 20-40 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 to -1 degrees celsius), but I will be using this in a garage (carport) so it will be 10 degrees warmer than that, and not exposed to rain/snow/wind. So is about 30 degrees in a garage too cold to operate this transmitter without damaging it?

EDM’s Response:
As long as it stays dry it should not be a problem. The LCD display is rated to work down to 0° C but the unit itself generate some internal heat so it should work a bit below that rating.
Regards, EDM Sales


So if you have your unit on a timer (as I was planning) then it won't generate the "internal heat" 24/7. Maybe just have the mini-director on the timer alone, and leave the EDM powered 24/7 instead (so it generates some heat). Anybody see any issue with leaving it powered without any music input to it for 18 hrs per day?

[Steven]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

Anybody see any issue with leaving it powered without any music input to it for 18 hrs per day?

It's considered "bad form" to transmit an "empty" signal (because otherwise someone else could use the frequency during the day), but it would most likely be better for the transmitter. I think the heat tape would be better.

[SlashDude]

Surfing4Dough wrote:

EDM’s Response:
As long as it stays dry it should not be a problem. The LCD display is rated to work down to 0° C but the unit itself generate some internal heat so it should work a bit below that rating.
Regards, EDM Sales

Thanks for posing their reply! I was starting to worry that I may have broken mine over the winter... It is mounted to the wall in the un-heated (Minnesota) garage.

I never had an issue with it last year, but I should probably test it before it gets too close to December.