Adding Universes to New Props LOR 6.3.10

[jgcorl]

So I am adding DMX universes this year to my light show using a Hinkspix Pro V3 controller.  I got my first prop responding correctly in the LOR software (after days of fighting with this software).  Now I am adding a new prop and it will not respond in the LOR software.  Here is my first prop definition:

High res snowflake:

Start Universe:1

Start Channel:1

End Universe:3

End Channel: 150

This gives me an ending channel of 1170 on my channel list.

Whenever I go to add another prop, I can manually put the Universe start to start at universe 4, but it defaults to starting at channel 1.  This gives me the appropriate start and end point for my universes, but my channels are not correct since it's starting at channel 1.  Whenever I have it start at channel 1171 (next on the controller), it bumps all the universe numbers through the roof.  

So is it correct to start on channel 1 for each prop, and if so, my channels and universes match perfectly but are not responding in LOR.  Any help is appreciated.

For the record, it took forever for the LOR software to respond correctly to my high res snowflake and I ended up updating the software to 6.3.10 and it worked fine.  Now it is acting like it is doing the same thing again, but I cannot update the software anymore.

[k6ccc]

This primarily sounds like an issue setting up the Hinkspix - which I can't help you with at all.  It sounds like the Hinkspix is allocating everything as a channel number that is 1 to xxxxx where xxxxx is the highest channel for all props on that controller combined.  Falcon Player (which I am familiar with) has that option as well.  I don't use that option, but I know it exists.  Falcon Player can also operate entirely in universes and channels within each universe which is easier when working with Universes in LOR.

48 minutes ago, jgcorl said:

So is it correct to start on channel 1 for each prop

It is not REQUIRED, but it certainly is easier for us human beings to keep track of it all.

50 minutes ago, jgcorl said:

Whenever I go to add another prop, I can manually put the Universe start to start at universe 4, but it defaults to starting at channel 1. 

In the channels section of the Prop Definition after entering DMX, select "Enter a channel on every row", and uncheck "Separate Universe for each RGB string".  Then you can enter whatever start universe and channel that you want.  Note to make sure the Max Channel (usually 510 or 512) matches whatever the Hinkspix is set for.

 

[jgcorl]

11 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

This primarily sounds like an issue setting up the Hinkspix - which I can't help you with at all.  It sounds like the Hinkspix is allocating everything as a channel number that is 1 to xxxxx where xxxxx is the highest channel for all props on that controller combined.  Falcon Player (which I am familiar with) has that option as well.  I don't use that option, but I know it exists.  Falcon Player can also operate entirely in universes and channels within each universe which is easier when working with Universes in LOR.

So my hinkspix pro software is set up in terms of universes and channels.  For example on prop 1 I have universes 1-3, with end channel of 150 on universe 3.  The next prop goes from universes 4-6 and ends on the same channel (just another identical prop to prop #1).  I know for sure that everything is set up correctly, because it tests out correctly in the software for my controller in terms of the port AND the universes/channels.  Whenever I go to LOR software I match the universe numbers and respective channels exactly how they appear in the software, it will simply not respond.  So it has to be something that the software is getting confused with.  To add onto that, I had this same exact issue with my first prop I tried in DMX and it randomly started working, stopped working the next morning, and started working again once I updated the software.  Now everything is back to not working again.  I haven't changed any settings at all in LOR or my controller between these time periods.

11 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

 

 

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, jgcorl said:

So my hinkspix pro software is set up in terms of universes and channels.

Then I'm curious where the "channel 1170 in my list" came from?

In your LOR control panel > Networks > Lighting network for you Hinkspix, Do you have the correct universes specified, and IP address set for the Hinkspix?

I assume the Hinkspix has a web based status page.  Does that page show that data packets are being received for the universes?

 

 

[jgcorl]

36 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Then I'm curious where the "channel 1170 in my list" came from?

In your LOR control panel > Networks > Lighting network for you Hinkspix, Do you have the correct universes specified, and IP address set for the Hinkspix?

I assume the Hinkspix has a web based status page.  Does that page show that data packets are being received for the universes?

 

 

My first universe is set for channels 1-510.  The second is 511-1020 and then universe 3 is 1021-1170.  All three combined are for my first prop.  After that I have a second prop across 3 universes that are 1171-xxx for universe 4 and then 5 and 6 would follow.  Basically 1170 channels per prop across 3 universes each.  

 

Hinkspix does have a web page.  I am not sure how to check it it's receiving packages, but I do go and test my universes individually for the specific channels and they all check out.  I turn on universe 1 and it will light up the first so many pixels, and then universe 2 will light more, and universe 3 will light the rest on the prop.  So everything is coordinated with the universes correctly on the online interface.

 

Ip address for the hinkspix is 10.10.10.10 and it is the same in my LOR software.  I am just caught up on the helter-skelter nature of the prop responding from the software.

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, jgcorl said:

My first universe is set for channels 1-510.  The second is 511-1020 and then universe 3 is 1021-1170. 

Where are you deriving those numbers?  LOR does not reference that, and it sounds like the Hinkpix does not either.

 

 

[jgcorl]

7 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Where are you deriving those numbers?  LOR does not reference that, and it sounds like the Hinkpix does not either.

 

 

This is not my current setup, but it was the default from hinkspix from when I began setting up my universes.

[gsmith37064]

2 hours ago, jgcorl said:

My first universe is set for channels 1-510.  The second is 511-1020 and then universe 3 is 1021-1170.  All three combined are for my first prop.  After that I have a second prop across 3 universes that are 1171-xxx for universe 4 and then 5 and  would follow.  Basically 1170 channels per prop across 3 universes each. 

Universe 1 should be channels 1 to 170. Universe 2 should be channels 1 to 170. Universe 3 should be channels 1 to 170. Each new universe resets the channel count. If you take 170 and times it by 3, you get 510. Your channel count is way off on each universe.

Jim asked the question on how you are getting those channel counts. Can you explain a little more?

This is pretty good video I found on it:

 

Edited Thursday at 09:23 PM by gsmith37064

[gsmith37064]

if you prop is only 3 universes and contains 150 channels per universe, that's only 450 channels total. Where is the 1170  showing up at?

Is your prop built correctly?

Universe 1 is 1 - 1000
Universe 2 is 1001 - 2000
Universe 3 is 2001 - 3000

And so on...

I assume you are using just 50 pixels per universe? 50 pixels at 3 channels gives you 150 channels per universe.

Edited Thursday at 09:35 PM by gsmith37064

[jgcorl]

10 minutes ago, gsmith37064 said:

if you prop is only 3 universes and contains 150 channels per universe, that's only 450 channels total. Where is the 1170  showing up at?

Is your prop built correctly?

Universe 1 is 1 - 1000
Universe 2 is 1001 - 2000
Universe 3 is 2001 - 3000

And so on...

I assume you are using just 50 pixels per universe? 50 pixels at 3 channels gives you 150 channels per universe.

That may be where the confusion lies.  I have 390 pixels total in my prop, so that is where I get the 1170 channels.  If I do 150 channels per universe, that will take me like 8 universes for one prop.  I feel like that sounds excessive?

I have the capability to run 48 universes on the controller.  With my two high res snowflakes (16 universes) plus my 190 pixel trees (6 of them = an additional 24 universes), I would be sitting at 40 universes being used across 10 ports on my controller.  

Let me know your thoughts, I appreciate the feedback so far!!

[gsmith37064]

How many pixels can 1 universe run? Most of us get 100 to 150 pixels. Once we know the exact pixels count, we can go from there. Each strand is 50 pixels. How many can you daisy chain off 1 universe before losing pixels or some strange flashing/strobbing happens?

After that, we would need to see the custom prop to make sure it's numbered correctly per universes.

Universe 1 is 1 - 1000
Universe 2 is 1001 - 2000
Universe 3 is 2001 - 3000

And so on...

Also is this controller 48 ports? To keep it simple, 1 physical port (pigtail) = 1 universe. How many pigtails do you have?

Edited Thursday at 09:56 PM by gsmith37064

[jgcorl]

7 minutes ago, gsmith37064 said:

How many pixels can 1 universe run? Most of us get 100 to 150 pixels. Once we know the exact pixels count, we can go from there. Each strand is 50 pixels. How many can you daisy chain off 1 universe before losing pixels or some strange flashing/strobbing happens?

After that, we would need to see the custom prop to make sure it's numbered correctly per universes.

Universe 1 is 1 - 1000
Universe 2 is 1001 - 2000
Universe 3 is 2001 - 3000

And so on...

Also is this controller 48 ports? To keep it simple, 1 physical port (pigtail) = 1 universe. How many pigtails do you have?

Each universe can handle 510 channels (170 pixels).  I have 16 physical ports on my controller.  Each port can handle 200 pixels on 50 percent power.  So right now for my high res snowflakes I have them spread across 2 ports on my controller (ports 33 and 34).  Those correspond to universe 1-3, which includes channels 1-1170.  

 

I am not at my computer at the moment, but my prop is set for universe 1-3, ending at channel 150 on universe 3 (which is 510 for universe 1, 510 for universe 2, and 150 for universe 3).  So in universe 3, I am only allocating enough channels to finish out that prop.  My next prop is defined as starting on universe 4 and ending on universe 6 (same prop as the first).  This is designated to start at channel 1 on universe 4 and end at channel 150 on universe 6 (another 1170 channels across 3 universes).  

[gsmith37064]

10 minutes ago, jgcorl said:

Each universe can handle 510 channels (170 pixels).  I have 16 physical ports on my controller.  Each port can handle 200 pixels on 50 percent power.  So right now for my high res snowflakes I have them spread across 2 ports on my controller (ports 33 and 34).  Those correspond to universe 1-3, which includes channels 1-1170.  

 

I am not at my computer at the moment, but my prop is set for universe 1-3, ending at channel 150 on universe 3 (which is 510 for universe 1, 510 for universe 2, and 150 for universe 3).  So in universe 3, I am only allocating enough channels to finish out that prop.  My next prop is defined as starting on universe 4 and ending on universe 6 (same prop as the first).  This is designated to start at channel 1 on universe 4 and end at channel 150 on universe 6 (another 1170 channels across 3 universes).  

If you only have 16 ports, you have 16 universes and not 48. So your custom prop needs to be built as follows:

Universe 1: 1 to 200 (pixels)
Universe 2: 1001 to 1191 (pixels)

This gives you 390 pixels for the prop on 2 universes.
You do not need the 3rd universe if you are truly getting 200 pixels per stand. Are you sure you can run 200 pixels without issue? Your channel count is 600 (200x3) at that point and needs to be correct in the controller.

But before that happens, make 100% for sure you can run 200 pixels per universe.
Most controllers only get 170. But reality is 100 to 150. At least in my world.

 

Edited Thursday at 10:15 PM by gsmith37064

[jgcorl]

9 minutes ago, gsmith37064 said:

If you only have 16 ports, you have 16 universes and not 48. So your custom prop needs to be built as follows:

Universe 1: 1 to 200 (pixels)
Universe 2: 1001 to 1191 (pixels)

This gives you 390 pixels for the prop on 2 universes.
You do not need the 3rd universe if you are truly getting 200 pixels per stand. Are you sure you can run 200 pixels without issue? Your channel count is 600 (200x3) at that point and needs to be correct in the controller.

But before that happens, make 100% for sure you can run 200 pixels per universe.
Most controllers only get 170. But reality is 100 to 150.

 

According to the manufacturer specs (hinkspix pro v3 from holidaycoro https://www.holidaycoro.com/kb_results.asp?ID=181) I can run 6 universes per port on my controller.  With all expansions accounted for, I can run a total of 80 ports from the box.  I don't have all the expansions, so I am currently working with 16 ports right now.  Am I misinterpreting something here?  

Aside from this though, my prop was working on the sequencing software to begin with when hooked up on the first two ports, but then it randomly didn't work again.  

[gsmith37064]

4 hours ago, jgcorl said:

According to the manufacturer specs (hinkspix pro v3 from holidaycoro https://www.holidaycoro.com/kb_results.asp?ID=181) I can run 6 universes per port on my controller.  With all expansions accounted for, I can run a total of 80 ports from the box.  I don't have all the expansions, so I am currently working with 16 ports right now.  Am I misinterpreting something here?  

Aside from this though, my prop was working on the sequencing software to begin with when hooked up on the first two ports, but then it randomly didn't work again.  

You are not going to get 1024 pixels on a port as you would be doing a ton of power injection. I am thinking the specs are a little misleading. Also the specs includes the differential controllers. That's how it reaches all those ports. One of the upgrades come with a 48 port controller and then you can purchase the add-on differential controllers. To get 48 ports, it uses the main card and 2 add-on cards. Over all, it's the same card used in the Flex controller package. Except yours has the WIFI and FM transmitter built in to it. I do the AlphaPix Evolution CPU as I don't need all the extra bells and whistles. So I'm not sure how you are getting 200 pixels to work in a single universe. I can get 150 max before serious voltage drop. I ended up rolling it back to 100 pixels per port just to make sure i don't have any issues. I run 8 ports off power supply 1 and the other 8 ports of power supply 2.

I am also assuming you do the one with 2 power supplies in it?

I am curious about the custom prop model. I am not sure how it's built. Can you send me the model?

Edited Friday at 03:09 AM by gsmith37064

[gsmith37064]

4 hours ago, jgcorl said:

Aside from this though, my prop was working on the sequencing software to begin with when hooked up on the first two ports, but then it randomly didn't work again.  

I would guess you ran the prop without any controller settings. Just blank settings. And this is why it worked. Once you added the controller info, it went south. This is why I think the custom prop is not built correctly.

But the first thing I would do is hook up 200 pixels to 1 port and see if it works. You can run the test settings on the controller to do the test. If it does something funky (not all pixels lighting up, really dim pixels at the end, flashing or strobbing) then back it down to 150 pixels and test again. Then down to 100 pixels.

I am clueless how you run 6 universes off 1 port. LOR even complains if the universes overlap. So I am scratching my head on that one.

Edited Friday at 03:23 AM by gsmith37064

[Tim Fischer]

There's a bunch of sloppy terminology usage here which is sure to cause problems.
 

1. An E1.31 universe always has 512 channels. In the pixel world, we often say they have 510 channels, because evenly divides the 3-channel pixels into 170 pixels. 
2. Some other lighting control solutions use absolute pixel numbering, from 0-<max number of pixels in your display>. LOR does not do this, you need to think in terms of universe # and channel #. And Channel number will ALWAYS be a number from 1-512 (and usually 1-510).
3. There was a comment that you can only get 140-150 channels on a universe. Not true. Depends on the pixels, and depends on if you're doing power injection, but you can get 170 pixels on a universe if you do it right.
4. There were also comments alluding to more than 170 pixels on a universe. Again, not possible, at least with E1.31. A port is not a universe... a port can have many more pixels than 170, but then it will span multiple universes.
    

I don't know anything about Hinkspix controllers. I know with Falcon you can tell it to use absolute numbering (0-<max pixel # in your display>) or Universe/channel. With LOR, you want to use the latter. If Hinxpix shows Universe 2 being channel 511-1020, then you'll have to do math to convert it to 1-510. Because it's NEVER going to be a number greater than 512. 

Edited Friday at 03:48 AM by Tim Fischer

[gsmith37064]

1 hour ago, Tim Fischer said:

There's a bunch of sloppy terminology usage here which is sure to cause problems.
 

1. An E1.31 universe always has 512 channels. In the pixel world, we often say they have 510 channels, because evenly divides the 3-channel pixels into 170 pixels. 

1. Some other lighting control solutions use absolute pixel numbering, from 0-<max number of pixels in your display>. LOR does not do this, you need to think in terms of universe # and channel #. And Channel number will ALWAYS be a number from 1-512 (and usually 1-510).
2. There was a comment that you can only get 140-150 channels on a universe. Not true. Depends on the pixels, and depends on if you're doing power injection, but you can get 170 pixels on a universe if you do it right.
3. There were also comments alluding to more than 170 pixels on a universe. Again, not possible, at least with E1.31. A port is not a universe... a port can have many more pixels than 170, but then it will span multiple universes.
    

I don't know anything about Hinkspix controllers. I know with Falcon you can tell it to use absolute numbering (0-<max pixel # in your display>) or Universe/channel. With LOR, you want to use the latter. If Hinxpix shows Universe 2 being channel 511-1020, then you'll have to do math to convert it to 1-510. Because it's NEVER going to be a number greater than 512. 

We pretty much covered all that. But we are working through it and getting closer to what the OP has. I have the same Flex Controller but with a different CPU as I did not need the extra bells and whistle. I think what needs to happen is the OP NEEDS to hook up 200 pixels on universe 1 and see the outcome. I do not believe he has done this. Pushing 150 pixels is best case. I had to bump it down to 100 pixels for it to work perfectly every time. As I stated above, he will need to bump it down to 150 pixels or even 100 pixels. I am also thinking he is testing the prop without any controller settings. Which would explain why it worked. But I am waiting to hear back. To me, I am thinking he is going off the spec sheet and not reality. If he imported the xlights prop, there is no telling how it's configured for universes. (i did ask for the prop) My guess, 391 pixels all on 1 universe. Which is why I keep posting the universe number count needed in the custom prop screen.

Universe 1: 1 to 200 (pixels)
Universe 2: 1001 to 1191 (pixels)

This gives you 390 pixels for the prop on 2 universes. I think it needs 4 universes to run smoothly. Maybe 3 if he can get 150 pixels to work every single time. But let's wait to hear back on if he is really doing 200 pixels and it works without issue.

One of the biggest mysteries is how it runs 6 universes off 1 port. I don't see that happening as LOR complains in the preview editor when universes overlap.

Also keep in mind that the screenshots are not his setup. So we really don't know what he has just yet. But we are getting there.

Edited Friday at 04:55 AM by gsmith37064

[gsmith37064]

6 hours ago, jgcorl said:

Each universe can handle 510 channels (170 pixels).  I have 16 physical ports on my controller.  Each port can handle 200 pixels on 50 percent power.  So right now for my high res snowflakes I have them spread across 2 ports on my controller (ports 33 and 34).  Those correspond to universe 1-3, which includes channels 1-1170.  

 

For those that are wondering how or why he keeps saying 48 ports.. The web gui comes configured as though you have all 3 boards installed. Even if you only have 1 board installed. It used to be ports 1 to 16 if you had 1 board, but they decided to change it around so board 3 is active which contains ports 33 to 48. Which is really ports 1 to 16 if you have 1 card installed. Confusing as hell I know. It also has something to do with the expansion controllers. There is a knowledge base article on his site about it. https://www.holidaycoro.com/kb_results.asp?ID=207

Edited Friday at 04:53 AM by gsmith37064

[Tim Fischer]

43 minutes ago, gsmith37064 said:

 

Universe 1: 1 to 200 (pixels)
Universe 2: 1001 to 1191 (pixels)

 

What I'm trying to say is, none of that makes sense. An e1.31 (DMX) universe can have no more than 170 pixels on it. 

I think you're confusing universes and ports perhaps?