Chuck M Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Okay guys, going to try to go from AC to pixie16 and have a plethora of questions. I know the pixies are hindered by distance. About how far away can the start of the first pixie be from the controller? The furtherst strands that I’d like to be on their own channel is about 75ft away (ridgeline that is on the opposite side of the house and garage). All others would probably start within 50ft. Would it be more beneficial to get two pixie8’s and daisy chain them via Cat6? Or would one pixie16 be okay? additionally how do you guys connect pixies to your roofs? PVC? Hot Glue on the mounting strips? Any pictures would be helpful. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 57 minutes ago, Chuck M said: Would it be more beneficial to get two pixie8’s and daisy chain them via Cat6? Or would one pixie16 be okay? Yes, you may do much better with two or more smaller controllers rather than trying to use one large capacity controller. Depends on your layout. 59 minutes ago, Chuck M said: I know the pixies are hindered by distance. About how far away can the start of the first pixie be from the controller? The furtherst strands that I’d like to be on their own channel is about 75ft away (ridgeline that is on the opposite side of the house and garage). All others would probably start within 50ft. Te technology has improved, but 75 feet is likely pushing it - a lot. You can try it on the ground before installation to find out what your devices can handle. BTW, if you test an find that for example 65 feet is the limit, don't plan on 60 feet for your installation. As things age, that number could easily go down. Give yourself plenty of slack for future changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 CAT6 is too stiff and will damage the jax over time from sideways strain. Consider buying the CAT5 dongles https://store.lightorama.com/collections/spt-wire-and-plugs/products/rjwada These can be bulkhead mounted (on the cableguard style cases and the are water resistant. 💡 You can use HU to reverse ports (Node 1 at far end). It is best if you plan on doing some of the Hardware tricks (eg Resolution) , to keep the string length, PER PORT at 50 Back to your long cables. The length is for the DATA. The square waves become distorted. Null amps mid way might help...but... Enemy #2 is voltage drop. The longer the string...the worse it hits. Power injection can help, but now you have all those extra cables and power supplies. I mounted 1 of my controller on the chimney https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GNbvb6PCypJm5oxizE3Ff1iLBckuno9m/view?usp=drive_link Just a power cord and a CAT5 or 2 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck M Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 8 hours ago, k6ccc said: Yes, you may do much better with two or more smaller controllers rather than trying to use one large capacity controller. Depends on your layout. Te technology has improved, but 75 feet is likely pushing it - a lot. You can try it on the ground before installation to find out what your devices can handle. BTW, if you test an find that for example 65 feet is the limit, don't plan on 60 feet for your installation. As things age, that number could easily go down. Give yourself plenty of slack for future changes. Ouch seems like a big gamble. Will there be a data drop daisy chaining the controllers with cat5/6 that far away? 75/100 ft?. I can probably get away with only two controllers on each side of the house but it would be pretty far apart and I fear the same issue with the data drop? Not sure if there is one when using Cat5/6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMassey Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 The Cat 5 between or feeding controllers is not an issue. RS 485 is good for 4000 ft and ethernet for 300 ft. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) For me if the distance is greater then 20 feet and less then 40 feet I will only use 50 pixels per port on my Pixie 16 and 8s. Where ever I have long distances to cover I won't run a pixel extension I will move a CCP 2 to the distant prop and use the CAT 5 to move the data to the prop. I have my five pixie 16 and four Pixie 8 controllers set at areas in my display where the props are no more the 10 feet away. this allows me to use up to 150 pixels per port with out issue. I also have a separate a network for 9 CCP 2s that are spread out for the distant props. This allows me to run 150 pixels per port on these props with no extensions between the CCPs and pixel strings that are located at the prop. When I first started using pixels there was only CCP 1 and CCP2 available. Once I got my first Pixie 16 I had already accumulated 22 CCP2, Each Pixie 16 was to consolidate. In so doing a number of CCP2s became back up controllers. I started running pixel extension from the Pixie 16 up to 75 feet. Through trailer and error I found the extension sweet spot for my show. I suggest you get Pixie 2 or pixie 4 for the props that are further then 20 to 40 feet away. This will insure that when using 100 or more pixels per port, they will not suffer from data loss or Voltage drop. Edited August 9 by Box on Rails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 General rule is to use larger Pixie16 for things like trees or matrix, props with tons of pixels close together. Smaller controller such as Pixie4 where you can get the controller closer to the prop and not have long pixel string runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 3 hours ago, Chuck M said: Ouch seems like a big gamble. Will there be a data drop daisy chaining the controllers with cat5/6 that far away? 75/100 ft?. I can probably get away with only two controllers on each side of the house but it would be pretty far apart and I fear the same issue with the data drop? Not sure if there is one when using Cat5/6? All Gen 2 Pixies now have a Termination Jumper to install on the Last unit on the cable (we used to build our own terminator stubs). Unless you are doing a Park or other commercial venue, I doubt you will get close to 4000' (that is 4 full, 1k' Boxes of Cat5 😲) RS485 (the electrical property of a LOR network) is what Alarms, Process control and many other systems use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck M Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, Box on Rails said: For me if the distance is greater then 20 feet and less then 40 feet I will only use 50 pixels per port on my Pixie 16 and 8s. Where ever I have long distances to cover I won't run a pixel extension I will move a CCP 2 to the distant prop and use the CAT 5 to move the data to the prop. I have my five pixie 16 and four Pixie 8 controllers set at areas in my display where the props are no more the 10 feet away. this allows me to use up to 150 pixels per port with out issue. I also have a separate a network for 9 CCP 2s that are spread out for the distant props. This allows me to run 150 pixels per port on these props with no extensions between the CCPs and pixel strings that are located at the prop. When I first started using pixels there was only CCP 1 and CCP2 available. Once I got my first Pixie 16 I had already accumulated 22 CCP2, Each Pixie 16 was to consolidate. In so doing a number of CCP2s became back up controllers. I started running pixel extension from the Pixie 16 up to 75 feet. Through trailer and error I found the extension sweet spot for my show. I suggest you get Pixie 2 or pixie 4 for the props that are further then 20 to 40 feet away. This will insure that when using 100 or more pixels per port, they will not suffer from data loss or Voltage drop. Sigh, welp guess I’m going to need more controllers than anticipated. I really want to jump in on the pixies so I’ll just adjust my budget to add 3-4 pixie8 controllers rather than just the 1 i was going to trial. Do singing faces need their own controller as well? What are you guys running for those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 18 minutes ago, Chuck M said: Sigh, welp guess I’m going to need more controllers than anticipated. I really want to jump in on the pixies so I’ll just adjust my budget to add 3-4 pixie8 controllers rather than just the 1 i was going to trial. Do singing faces need their own controller as well? What are you guys running for those? How close to each other are your plans? 12V and under 20' to the furthest, allows a common controller. BUT LOR faces EACH come with a Pixie2 controller . The only choice is who pushes the pixels. (there is a note that if you also have LOR pumpkins, you contact the Help desk to skip the Pixie2.) I think there might be LOR ID issues if you use the Ready To Go Sequences with a larger controller. Pixies only allow the assignment of the Base (port 1), all the rest are inherited from that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck M Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 6 hours ago, Mr. P said: General rule is to use larger Pixie16 for things like trees or matrix, props with tons of pixels close together. Smaller controller such as Pixie4 where you can get the controller closer to the prop and not have long pixel string runs. Thanks for this input, LOR is a bit absurd with their prices. The 4 is almost not even economical. I guess I’ll just be getting 2-3 of the 8s and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) Depending where I opt to place my 2 singing (version 1) trees, Ralphie and Zuzu, I may use the Pixie 2 they came with, a Pixie 4, a Pixie 8 or my Pixie 16 using my own Sequences I created, the caveat is if you use the store bought versions, if they are not editable you are stuck with the standard controller ID's LOR assigns, if you want to use your own ID's NOT the LOR defaults, you need to spend the extra money and purchase the YOU CAN MODIFY versions, so they would fit your needs by copying and pasting from the purchased modifiable sequence into your own setup. I don't use the LOR DEFAULTS for my singing trees. Mine are currently on a Pixie 4 and ports 6,7 for Ralphie and ports 8,9 for Zuzu, as I wanted to put both trees on a single controller, and I use extensions to get to them, 40 feet from controller, every 20 feet I use a null pixel and sequence them at 30-35% intensity, worked perfectly in my 2023 display. Making some changes for 2024, so still working on controller placement, cat5, extension cable, and power cord runs. I still use an old Gen1 CTB16PC controller for the limited AC Items(mainly blowmolds) in my display, and to power my N4-G4 MP3 Director that runs my shows. Just built a new setup in an HC2500 Box that contains my N4-G4 Director, my MBB Eclipse 4000 FM transmitter and a Kinter Amp to my front outdoor speakers, will be adding rear speakers at some point. Edited August 9 by Orville 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck M Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 Does anyone have a picture of how they attached the pixies to your ridgelines and windows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMassey Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 My pixels are on PVC around windows and hanging from my soffits. https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/eni42r6ijpmomgwoxs4g9/20221110_132217.jpg?rlkey=oi7q5muyzgf2dxe2tv6a5sjei&st=4r5oudpo&dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 4 hours ago, Chuck M said: Thanks for this input, LOR is a bit absurd with their prices. The 4 is almost not even economical. I guess I’ll just be getting 2-3 of the 8s and hope for the best. The per output port circuitry is probably the cheaper part. There are build tricks to get the automatic parts placement cheaper when doing smaller boards. I suspect their volume is not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Chuck M said: Does anyone have a picture of how they attached the pixies to your ridgelines and windows? I went the PVC with Bullets route for under eves and Ridge. There is wires and stuff on the back side, which make Phils flat nodes a better solution where the 'extra' would be a issue. I did my first 300 with a drill-moter on Porta-line. Believe me, a Bench drill press is the way to go. (Every node gets drilled 3 times. 1) pilot hole with 1 being used to keep the PVC from rotating while drilling the rest. 2) 8mm all the way thru 3)13mm back only (the 12mm bullets tend to be chubby) 50 nodes @ 3" = 16' The Plus is every node points the same way. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yuxhGZe9GPRZ_fZJxG_DOOHRdiOeJB-C/view?usp=drive_link Another solution for Comp shingles is shingle clips that have a blade that slides under, but those get tedious to do . Edited August 9 by TheDucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck M Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 8 minutes ago, TheDucks said: I went the PVC with Bullets route for under eves and Ridge. There is wires and stuff on the back side, which make Phils flat nodes a better solution where the 'extra' would be a issue. I did my first 300 with a drill-moter on Porta-line. Believe me, a Bench drill press is the way to go. (Every node gets drilled 3 times. 1) pilot hole with 1 being used to keep the PVC from rotating while drilling the rest. 2) 8mm all the way thru 3)13mm back only (the 12mm bullets tend to be chubby) 50 nodes @ 3" = 16' The Plus is every node points the same way. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yuxhGZe9GPRZ_fZJxG_DOOHRdiOeJB-C/view?usp=drive_link Another solution for Comp shingles is shingle clips that have a blade that slides under, but those get tedious to do . I’d like to see the non PVC look. I don’t think the wife is going to be a fan of making the house look that crazy during the day lol. I may try the shingle clips like I’ve used for my AC stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 On 8/9/2024 at 6:32 PM, Chuck M said: I’d like to see the non PVC look. I don’t think the wife is going to be a fan of making the house look that crazy during the day lol. I may try the shingle clips like I’ve used for my AC stuff. Unless I told anyone they would have never seen my pvc house outline pixels. The window frames yes but the way I tucked my conduit up close to my shingles you would never know. I also had no - Zero - 0 luck drilling holes in pvc for the rooflines even with an expensive template I purchased here In 2016. Im not sure if in my attempt to drill the holes I was to fast and the heat made them twist or what but I wasted several sticks before giving up. I ended up getting WS2811 5050 rectangle nodes and screwing them to the PVC along with a zip tie here and there. With my pixie controller builds I put to rest a lot of myths about distance and extensions. There are videos all over YouTube I have done in the subject. It’s all about the build and psu’s. Even my LOR testing Beta pixie16 bully in 2016 is still in service along with the pixels in that prop bug it went between that matrix and outline testing until Beta testing was complete. There’s a writeup and video posted at the top of the General section in this forum. Singing faces also depend on The prop. I recommend the LOR Sinhing quartet V2 - 10 mouth movements (only 9 used). They one with the controller and normally the nodes are already in place. A few may pop out during shipping but no big deal. The transition between words is much smoother than any 5 mouth movement or any other mfg prop produced. I sequence all of them and have had experience with probably all of teh singing props that are out. Will you pay a little more for LOR controllers and props - perhaps (there are sales) however you will not beat the Customer Service and Help Desk staff. Have questions feel free to PM. Dont get upset if I don’t reply right away. Up until last year I was here everyday. Then I had medical issues so I had to take a long break. I am very slowly trying to get back into the swing of things, lots of setbacks. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 JR I drill a 3/16 pilot hole where I want nodes, in a small drill press or porta-line . then I came back with the 12mm step reamer (I used to use a right-angle cordless Makita until someone gave me a drill press (had a bad capacitor). The one I had just happened to make the 8mm hole on the other side if I stopped with the 12mm flush with its hole I think my count goes past 400 nodes A little Hot Glue fixes loose nodes (I use Bullets) if I wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 5 hours ago, TheDucks said: JR I drill a 3/16 pilot hole where I want nodes, in a small drill press or porta-line . then I came back with the 12mm step reamer (I used to use a right-angle cordless Makita until someone gave me a drill press (had a bad capacitor). The one I had just happened to make the 8mm hole on the other side if I stopped with the 12mm flush with its hole I think my count goes past 400 nodes A little Hot Glue fixes loose nodes (I use Bullets) if I wobble. My problems was not with the holes. My problem Back then was although each hole lined up with 3 dowels on the template yet they were not straight when done. The first section of 20’ was more than 180 deg off. Instead of the pixels being in a straight line. Had I hung up the conduit 1/2 of the lights would have been facing the house and not the crowd. LOL After the first one I paid attention to the next 20’ run and in a very short time I could see the spiral. Im pretty sure that heating the conduit with the drill press caused it to flex enough. Gave up and used the 5050 modules that I continued to use for years until I moved this year. I will be using the same 5050 modules in my new home. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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