Controllers not recognized

[BassLakeLights]

I have a N4-G4 licensed for pro. I tested props on net 2 and net 3 in the garage and worked fine with sequence. When I installed it outside, for some reason the controllers on net2 and net3 are not seen. I can connect directly to the controllers with the HWU. I haven't changed anything that I am aware of. I can put the controller on net1 and it will link. I'm pulling what is left of my hair out. Any suggestions? N4-G4 problem from what I can see.

[k6ccc]

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.  When outside, with Net 2 & Net 3 connected to the Director, nothing works, but if you connect those nets (one at a time) to a computer via a USB to RS-485 adapter, they work properly.  Do I have that right?

Now back to using the Director.  What exactly do you mean by "or some reason the controllers on net2 and net3 are not seen"  Do you mean that the lights do not work, or the status lights on the controllers are not steady, or something else?  I've never used a Director, but as far as I know, the Directors have no equivalent of the Hardware Utility to scan for attached controllers.

Are these older controllers that need to be on lower speed and non-enhanced networks?  If so, what is the speed and Enhanced setting in the Director for those networks?

 

[Orville]

I really believe THIS is the OP's issue.

Are you supplying power to the Director with cat5 via a Controller (IT MUST BE ON the REGULAR network to do so!)

Only Net1(Regular) will supply power to the Director, Aux A(Net 2), Aux B(Net 3) and Aux C(Net 4) WILL NOT and DO NOT SUPPLY Power via Cat5 to the Director.

If you ARE NOT using a controller that can supply power to the Director on Net1(Regular) NOTHING is going to power up or work!

If you are using an adapter to power the Director, which the OP hasn't said how the Director is being powered, then everything should work and the Directors Display should be illuminated.

Is the Directors display on when a controller is plugged into Net1 (Regular) and go Dark(off) when no controller is plugged into Net1, but are plugged into Net2, Net3 or Net4?

If so, you need to power the Director with a 12VDC adapter or via Cat5 from Net1(Regular) to a controller that can supply power to it.  But NOT both.

I think they have no power to the Director when they move the controller off Net1 and put it on any other Network on the Director. 

Also, when you put a controller on ANY other Network, 2,3 or 4  the Auxillary power should be TURNED OFF in controllers on THOSE Networks, as it's pointless, and it could possibly damage the Director. 

These auxillary power outputs are usually a small black jumper or a switch(usually in the multi-switch bank) on the PCB inside the controller. 

You'll need to refer to your particular controller manual to locate the proper jumper or switch location to turn off Auxillary Power for use with a Director on any other Network EXCEOT Net1(Regular).

So, I think your Director may be just fine, as this is how it is supposed to work.

Edited November 19 by Orville

[Orville]

58 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying.  When outside, with Net 2 & Net 3 connected to the Director, nothing works, but if you connect those nets (one at a time) to a computer via a USB to RS-485 adapter, they work properly.  Do I have that right?

Now back to using the Director.  What exactly do you mean by "or some reason the controllers on net2 and net3 are not seen"  Do you mean that the lights do not work, or the status lights on the controllers are not steady, or something else?  I've never used a Director, but as far as I know, the Directors have no equivalent of the Hardware Utility to scan for attached controllers.

Are these older controllers that need to be on lower speed and non-enhanced networks?  If so, what is the speed and Enhanced setting in the Director for those networks?

 

Director speed is set by the HU in older software versions via the MP3 Tab(pre version 5) or in the Hub(which I don't use due to it always defaults to 12PM(NOON) if you set it for anything between 12:00AM(Midnight) through 12:59AM WILL ALWAYS Default to PM.   This is in S4 only that this happens.

And all the appropriate files that set all that is written on the SD Card with the corresponding sequence(.seq) files, as long as you set them when you create your SD Card show properly.

Edited November 19 by Orville

[BassLakeLights]

All of the props and controllers were CPC packages purchased from LOR a couple months ago. I set up the 8 mini trees and 20x40 matrix in the gargage connected to net2 and net3 respectively to the N4-G4. I ran the sequence which was also purchased from LOR with default settings. I did NOT modify anything. Everything was connected with their own power.

The sequence ran fine. The trees lit and the matrix played what was in the sequence. I played it multiple times and multiple sequences.

Now after installing it outside, for some reason the G4-N4 does not recognize anything on net2 or net3. I can move the Pixie-8 from net2 to net1 and the controller links to the director as indicated by a solid red light. I have it connected exactly the same as I did when testing in the garage.

Net2 has the 8 mini trees and 40 pixel stakes. Net3 has the roofline and matrix. Testing the lights directly from each respective controller works fine as well. Which I would expect.

To rule out an issue with the individual controllers, I tested if I was able to link with the HWU. Also moved to net1. It seems like something is up with the director ports 2 and 3 as anything I connect to it does not link. Everything on net1 works fine with the sequence.

This is all run from the N4-G4. Not from the computer.

All of the show files were written to the SD card via the control panel. It seems the director doesn't see the net2 and net3 controllers for some unknown reason. All controllers have their own power.

[TheDucks]

You are missing the point. We are not talking about Controllers getting power. We are talking about how the N4G4 gets power.

What is connected to Net1 of the N4G4

[Orville]

22 minutes ago, BassLakeLights said:

All of the props and controllers were CPC packages purchased from LOR a couple months ago. I set up the 8 mini trees and 20x40 matrix in the gargage connected to net2 and net3 respectively to the N4-G4. I ran the sequence which was also purchased from LOR with default settings. I did NOT modify anything. Everything was connected with their own power.

The sequence ran fine. The trees lit and the matrix played what was in the sequence. I played it multiple times and multiple sequences.

Now after installing it outside, for some reason the G4-N4 does not recognize anything on net2 or net3. I can move the Pixie-8 from net2 to net1 and the controller links to the director as indicated by a solid red light. I have it connected exactly the same as I did when testing in the garage.

Net2 has the 8 mini trees and 40 pixel stakes. Net3 has the roofline and matrix. Testing the lights directly from each respective controller works fine as well. Which I would expect.

To rule out an issue with the individual controllers, I tested if I was able to link with the HWU. Also moved to net1. It seems like something is up with the director ports 2 and 3 as anything I connect to it does not link. Everything on net1 works fine with the sequence.

This is all run from the N4-G4. Not from the computer.

All of the show files were written to the SD card via the control panel. It seems the director doesn't see the net2 and net3 controllers for some unknown reason. All controllers have their own power.

Has the Auxillary power options been DISABLED in those controllers?

So, you are using an adapter via the barrel power in jack on the back of the Director outside? 

Are you using the correct adapter,  the one LOR sells separately, specifically for the N4-G4 Director?

The only other issue I can think of is, your sequences ARE NOT set up to use Net 2 or Net 3. 

You say the sequence works fine on Net 1, the Regular network on the Director, but not on Net 2 or Net 3. 

Did you select those networks in your sequence?

Which would be Net 2 = Aux A and Net 3 = Aux B in the sequence network for any controllers using those networks. 

If not, THIS IS YOUR ISSUE.  You have NOT defined the sequence to use the Network you're connecting them too. 

As such, nothing will happen, no lights, no recognition, because the sequence is looking for Net 1(Regular) network. 

So if you plug your controllers into Net 1 and your props/lights work, you have assignment issues in the sequence causing your problems.

This is a very common mistake folks make when using a Director, or even a computer.

Check your sequences, be sure the network and controllers are assigned to that network you want them on, once corrected, your controllers should work, providing the Director is getting proper power to it in some way.

 

Edited November 19 by Orville

[Orville]

8 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

You are missing the point. We are not talking about Controllers getting power. We are talking about how the N4G4 gets power.

What is connected to Net1 of the N4G4

From his last response, I think he may have misconfigured his sequences.

[BassLakeLights]

The N4-G4 has it's own power cable. So it is getting power from that. The director came installed in an outdoor enclosure. As each controller has it's own AC cable.

Net 1 has 2 AC controllers and a 16x25 tree.

Net 2 has 8 mini trees and 40 pixel stakes.

Net 3 has the roofline and matrix.

I have checked the port assignment for all the props on net 2 and net 3 in the sequence. And those props, on those ports, were working when I tested in the garage.

I only mentioned connecting the pixie8 to net1 as part of troubleshooting. In that when connected to net1, the N4-G4 sees the pixie8. NOT that any part of the sequence involving those specific controllers work when connected to that port. Which I agree, would indicated that I have the 8 mini trees configured to use net1. As for the sequence, all of the lights connected to net1 (which are the 2 AC controllers and 16x25 tree) work with the sequence.

I will create a new sequence to see if something got corrupted. It's just odd that it was working in the garage and as far as I know, I made no changes to the sequence or anything else. Maybe I am missing something with what is being said.

[Jimehc]

Did you write the SD Card or is it still from LOR

[k6ccc]

Just a technology point.  You have said several times that the Director is not detecting the controllers.  Directors do not EVER detect controllers - they simply send commands to Unit IDs on various ports.  The Director has no knowledge if any controller with those Unit IDs are there - or any controller is there at all (unless the Director is getting power from a controller - in which case it only knows that there is power, not even if that power is coming from a controller).

On the other hand, controllers DO detect is there is a device (computer or Director) sending data on the network.  The controller will indicate that it is seeing data by turning the status LED on the controller to solidly on (as opposed to slow or fast flashing).  So, the question would be, what is the status LED show on the controllers on Nets 2 & 3?

 

[Orville]

When checking your controller via the Director, make sure you have the SD Card inserted and the Director shows wait or something like 1-01 on the Director Display.

If no SD Card is inserted, your controller will show a blinking LED, if the SD Card is inserted and a set start time for a show was set, the Director will blink between the time clock and wait, or if you created a play anytime show if Director is powered, the Display should show which show is playing and which sequence is playing in that show, it will also blink back and forth with the time clock and this info.

Show 01 (.seq) 1 will display as: 01-1, Show 01 (.seq) 4 as 01-4, each show will show this info as the Director sends commands from the SD Card, and if this is what is showing in the Director's Display, then, and only then will the Controller LED be steady on.

  If not, then you probably do have an issue with those network connections on the Director, or the connectors may have a bent pin (easy fix) in one or both of them, or your cat5 cable isn't making proper contact, that is, it may not be inserted fully.  This happens with some booted cat5 cable connectors.

  I had to trim some of mine because the boot kept pushing my cat5 cable back, just enough that things didn't work or may work intermittently.

Once you have a controller open, and connected to the problem network jack, if the controller LED is blinking (when it should be on steady), push the cat5 into the Director(gently, don't force it), if the cable is booted, and the light goes steady on, then the boot on the cable connector is more than likely the culprit.  Cut the boot back and re-insert, if the problem goes away, the boot on the cable is and was in all likelihood the issue.

 

[BassLakeLights]

I found the issue. I created a custom introduction and when writing to the SD, it didn't set the network and speed for the net 2 and net 3. After some tweaking, it now works. Thanks for the help.

[k6ccc]

Glad you found it.

 

[Orville]

On 11/19/2023 at 6:47 PM, BassLakeLights said:

I found the issue. I created a custom introduction and when writing to the SD, it didn't set the network and speed for the net 2 and net 3. After some tweaking, it now works. Thanks for the help.

That is one of the issues I brought up to check when creating the SD Card, but then you said the sequence worked on net 1, so we started looking for other issues that could be causing the problems with net 2 and 3.

Glad you finally found it, and it was a net 2 and net 3 issue with a simple fix, rewrite the SD Card and set all parameters properly, and that your Director didn't have any real defects.  Working as it was supposed too.

I've made the same mistake using my Director when I first got the newest version (N4G4) as I wasn't accustomed to the Director having to have each network set when writing an SD Card, but I managed to figure it out and no more problems.  But it did take me a while to track down this type issue.

Glad you got everything working properly!🙂

 

 

Edited November 21 by Orville