CTB16PC v1 Ch 1-8 dead

[ftrevor]

hey there,

I have a CTB16PC v1 that has been running for years.  This last season (of course mid December after the show was runing for 2 weeks ) channels 1-8 stopped working.  I have performed the following without resolving the issue.

Check fuses - both fuses are good and there is 115v post fuse for both side.

Check soldering and looked for any visible shorts or damege

Replaced 74AC273 at U4

 

Does anyone have any other suggestion to debug or repair?

 

Thanks

Ftrevor

[tlogan]

I don't know if this applies to you, but I run three of the CTB16s and last year I noticed that half of one them went out. Checked everything, until I noticed half of a second one on the opposite side of the house was out, too. I have four 20amp circuits with GFCI outlets all next to each and I run all of my lights from those four circuits. I spread the two plugs from each across those four so that I kind spread the load. Turns out, ONE of the GFCI outlets had failed, and half of both of those controllers was plugged into the one that failed. Fortunately the load is really not that great so I was able move them to working outlets. And I remembered to replace the bad one this summer. 

And yes, four 20 amp circuits are overkill for my lights, especially since I went to all LED and pixels, but had those run BEFORE I switched over and was running ALL incas.

[ftrevor]

@tlogan Thanks for the response.  There is adequate power on both power inputs. I have a test setup to program the ID numbers and to debug failed controllers.  I have 20 CTBs that I maintain. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ftrevor

[TheDucks]

39 minutes ago, ftrevor said:

thanks for the response.  There is adequate power on both power inputs. I have a test setup to program the ID numbers and to debug failed controllers.  I have 20 CTBs that I maintain. 

Are they all V1's ? Are you running 2 power cords or 1 ? Did you check the voltage with the other prob on the Left (same side) Neutral bus?

[TheDucks]

While I would expect the fuse to blow, check to see if any of the TO-220 (TRIAC) tabs are shorted to the heat sink

[Orville]

I had this issue with one of my older CTB16PC controllers, when I checked the fuses, all good, but what I did find was the neutral wire that went to that side, the spade lug that plugs onto the male connector on the Printed Circuit Board's solder connection had come loose, so this lug was "intermittent", what I did was just unplug the neutral and plug it onto another neutral connection, resolved the issue, but I did make a note to reflow the solder on that particular lug connection.  Once reflowed, put the neutral back on its original connection and been working fine for the last 5 years.   So you may want to check the neutral connection on the PCB, as being intermittent or solder has cracked and loosened the lug, even just a small fraction, can cause this issue of half the channels on a CTB16PC controller to fail.   It did like to drive me crazy tracking this problem down, it's not an obvious one, so you may want to examine that neutral connection very closely, and place that neutral wire onto another neutral connection, usually the one right next to the one you took it off of works fine.  If all channels come back to life, then you'll know it's a bad neutral connection on the CTB16PC's PC board.

 

[ftrevor]

@TheDucks     I have v1s and v2s; however, this is on my test system with only the v1 connected.  To date, I have not had any issues with the v1s and the v2s living in peace and harmony.  I have had a problem with the pixel controllers behaving poorly when they are required to share with the v1s and v2s.  I have a fix for that though.  The TRIACs shorted are a good thing to check, but I have removed the heatsink for testing without load and there is no chance of this one being shorted.  I am running 2 power cords and have also validated the 115v past the fuse.

 

@Orville Good idea on the lugs.  They can be hard to flow the solder due to the massive amount of copper connected.  Unfortunately, this is a hard failure and not the result of a cold solder joint on the terminals.  I did go back and check :).  I have taken the ohm meter to the neutrals on the left side of the board (servicing 1-8) and they are all nicely shorted.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Keep them coming.

[Orville]

11 hours ago, ftrevor said:

@TheDucks     I have v1s and v2s; however, this is on my test system with only the v1 connected.  To date, I have not had any issues with the v1s and the v2s living in peace and harmony.  I have had a problem with the pixel controllers behaving poorly when they are required to share with the v1s and v2s.  I have a fix for that though.  The TRIACs shorted are a good thing to check, but I have removed the heatsink for testing without load and there is no chance of this one being shorted.  I am running 2 power cords and have also validated the 115v past the fuse.

 

@Orville Good idea on the lugs.  They can be hard to flow the solder due to the massive amount of copper connected.  Unfortunately, this is a hard failure and not the result of a cold solder joint on the terminals.  I did go back and check :).  I have taken the ohm meter to the neutrals on the left side of the board (servicing 1-8) and they are all nicely shorted.

 

Thanks for the suggestions. Keep them coming.

If it's a hard failure, it may require a help desk ticket and need to be sent in to LOR for repairs.  As this could now be something the end user may not be able to correct.

[TheDucks]

11 hours ago, ftrevor said:

@TheDucks     I have v1s and v2s; however, this is on my test system with only the v1 connected.  To date, I have not had any issues with the v1s and the v2s living in peace and harmony.  I have had a problem with the pixel controllers behaving poorly when they are required to share with the v1s and v2s.  I have a fix for that though.  The TRIACs shorted are a good thing to check, but I have removed the heatsink for testing without load and there is no chance of this one being shorted.  I am running 2 power cords and have also validated the 115v past the fuse.

 Thanks for the suggestions. Keep them coming.

Pixies do not like slow network for shows. HU runs slow on any network , so that is not a good compatibility test. V1 or V2 can not run Enhanced and absolutely should not be on the same cable with those that do..

I second Orville's cracked Neutral.   FWIW, if you are running LED, why not change over to 1 cord configuration while you are at it. all you need is Blue  1/4" Fastons and a bit of 14Ga  Wh + Bk wire.  Diagrams are in the manuals

 

[ftrevor]

 

45 minutes ago, Orville said:

If it's a hard failure, it may require a help desk ticket and need to be sent in to LOR for repairs.  As this could now be something the end user may not be able to correct.

LOR is currently not accepting hardware returns.  Maybe they are digging out from Christmas.  That's why I came to the forum.

[ftrevor]

8 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

Pixies do not like slow network for shows. HU runs slow on any network , so that is not a good compatibility test. V1 or V2 can not run Enhanced and absolutely should not be on the same cable with those that do..

I second Orville's cracked Neutral.   FWIW, if you are running LED, why not change over to 1 cord configuration while you are at it. all you need is Blue  1/4" Fastons and a bit of 14Ga  Wh + Bk wire.  Diagrams are in the manuals

 

I split my network into 2.  Old LOR on one channel (I have 2 re485 adapters) and the pixels on the other.  But I digress as this is not a mixing controller type issue.

As I switch over to LEDs I will start converting the LORs. Currently running lots of incandescent lights as I slowly move the 3D stuff to LEDs. Thanks for the idea.

[Orville]

On 2/14/2023 at 9:44 AM, ftrevor said:

 

LOR is currently not accepting hardware returns.  Maybe they are digging out from Christmas.  That's why I came to the forum.

Wow, that's interesting.  I've never known LOR not to accept a hardware return for a repair issue.  This is the very first time {for me}, as I've never seen or heard of that kind of response from them on an item that may need to go in for repair services, no matter how old or new it is.  Always a first time for everything, I suppose.   But I have to say, that is very unlike them.

Because this sure is sounding more and more like a repair issue, as opposed to one the end customer can correct on their own.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Orville

[ftrevor]

2 minutes ago, Orville said:

Wow, that's interesting.  I've never known LOR not to accept a hardware return for a repair issue.  This is the very first time {for me}, as I've never seen or heard of that kind of response from them on an item that may need to go in for repair services, no matter how old or new it is.  Always a first time for everything, I suppose.   But I have to say, that is very unlike them.

Because this sure is sounding more and more like a repair issue, as opposed to one the end customer can correct on their own.

[Orville]

14 minutes ago, ftrevor said:

Wow, they must really be backlogged on their repairs to have posted that.  Or their supply chain for parts has become a major thorn to get the repair components they need to do repairs, could be a bit of both.  Like stated, this is the first time I've ever seen this.  Just very surprising, since I don't know of any time with all the years I've been with LOR that something like this was ever posted.

[cdlouke]

I have the same problem. Tried to send two 16pc boards with bad jacks back in January. Told me to try back in February. Tried back last week and was told still not accepting returns. 

[Orville]

On 2/16/2023 at 7:31 PM, cdlouke said:

I have the same problem. Tried to send two 16pc boards with bad jacks back in January. Told me to try back in February. Tried back last week and was told still not accepting returns. 

Are the jacks actually bad or just loose on the board?   If loose and you can use a soldering iron, it's just a matter of removing the circuit board from the controller box, a lot of work as you have to remove all the cord connections, triac connections and the heat sinks from the triacs before you can take the board out.  But if loose, it's a quick fix, just heat the solder and add a little more to the connection to reflow it, that will solidify the joints and the jacks will no longer be loose.  

It takes longer to get the PCB out to do the solder reflow than it does to actually reflow the solder, which takes just a few minutes, once done, just reassemble the board and it's ready to go.  I had an older CTB16PC that the cat5 jacks had broken loose, after 10+ years of use, always outside, did this and now my older CTB16PC controller is working perfectly fine.   And if you can desolder and resolder in a new jack, if you can get LOR to possibly send you  replacement jacks, then you could take out the old ones and install the new ones yourself, takes a little more time to do that, and you have to b careful not to damage the PCB or the solder traces/pads so you don't damage them when doing the rework/replacements.

If you can't do it, you may want to check with an electronics repair shop in your area, or find a hobbyist that builds electronics and get them to help you with getting the repair done.  Sometimes a hobbyist will charge you a few dollars for doing it, where an electronics repair center will charge you for time, hours and disassembly/reassembly of the unit.

The cheapest way out is if you can do it yourself, or have a family member that works in the electronics manufacturing field that would do it for you for close to nothing or nothing at all.

 

 

[lightningrod4life]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:15 PM, ftrevor said:

Did you ever get your board figured out?

 

[ftrevor]

4 hours ago, lightningrod4life said:

 

It is still marked "Bucking Fusted".

 

 

[lightningrod4life]

10 hours ago, ftrevor said:

It is still marked "Bucking Fusted".

 

 

Have you considered the processor? Its like its not outputing signal to the Opto chips (Moc3023 chip) to trigger your Triac is what it sounds like to me. I would consider swapping with a known good controller and see what it does? especially if everything else checks out ok. 

[ftrevor]

4 minutes ago, lightningrod4life said:

Have you considered the processor? Its like its not outputing signal to the Opto chips (Moc3023 chip) to trigger your Triac is what it sounds like to me. I would consider swapping with a known good controller and see what it does? especially if everything else checks out ok. 

I had not tried that yet.  I will pull it out of the "to be fixed" box and give it a go.  Thanks for the idea.