GFCI tripping problem

[Wayne K]

I have 5 arches in my setup. Arches 2 and 3 are giving me GFCI problems. Theses are on the same controller # 11 in my case ( Brand new ac controller ). With the slightest moisture I am tripping the gfci on this controller. This is the only controller on this circuit. I have replaced the gfci with a new one. I have looked at all of the wiring, I have sealed all of the female plug sockets with hot glue, I even took the pump up garden sprayer out there and sprayed the arches and soaked them and they continued to work. I have went into hardware utility and ran 1 circuit at a time and cannot make the gfci trip. I can run all 16 circuits on and cannot make it trip. A good example, yesterday morning we had rain and it tripped the gfci. So after work yesterday I reset the gfci and I done the same thing in hardware utility and could not make it trip. Had to go out of town for a few hours last night. Pulled in the driveway and the 2 arches are out again. So does anyone know of a gfci line tester or how I would test each circuit going to the arches for voltage leak? Or any other way to test the circuit from the controller to the arch to pin point anything that way? 

Wayne

[dgander]

These can be quite frustrating I know. I had the same issue as I had one breaker that just seemed to be very sensitive. Unfortunately what you need to do is unplug all the channels first. Turn on the controller(s) and see if it trips. That will determine if it is something with the controller(s). If you have more than one on that circuit, you need to do them one at a time. If nothing trips, start plugging in your strings one at a time until it trips. Once it trips, you need to inspect the string that tripped it. YOU ARE NOT DONE! Once you figure out why that string tripped it, keep going, there might be more than one string that is causing the issue. In my case, squirrel bites into the wire. Very hard to find. It could be one bulb missing, a loose bulb, exposed wire for any reason, etc.

[jfuller8400]

And to make matters worse, it may be that it takes more than 1 string to make it trip.  I've been having the same problems this year as well.  Youl would think being in a cold climate I wouldn't have these problems but it's been 37 degrees at night here this last week which has been melting all of the snow we have.  Melting snow = water, and water & electricity just don't seem to get along 😁.  

[Halladaylights]

Have had same issues here for the past week with all of the rain we've had.  Never had an issue last year.  This year is completely a different story.  Last night was the first night in a week I haven't had GFCI issues.  A little snow doesn't seem to be an issue so far, but it's just that constant rain and wet air we've had for the past week.  Hoping the dropping temps will put an end to my issues until I can isolate the problem.

[TheDucks]

More Input (Johnny 5).

Could posters with these issues indicate (like #1 did) the type of controller(s) on that circuit:  AC or  DC (has a PSU) and if there are additional devices between (Photo cell/timer). It might help identify the trigger.

The reason: I had 3@400W 12V PSU on a timer. When it turned them OFF, the GFCI tripped 50% of  the time. Why Timer: I'm cheap. and save the cost of 16 hours of idle time power (~60W/hr @35-55cents / KWh, TOD rates) . The circuit is not overloaded (80% rule).  PSU (these days) tend to be Capacitive reactive. AC Motors are inductive. The cheaper ones do little PF correction, so some of what I see might be the back EMF from shutting off.

[Wayne K]

I have pulled the troublesome arch today and I have it in my warm shop looking it over. 1 thing I noticed is that I have 2 led's (100 count led m6 strings and are totally sealed ) that the plastic cover has come off. Is it possible that moisture is getting in there? I have not cut any strings apart to see how the led is sealed under the plastic lens. At this point I think I am going to hit them with hot glue to possible cure the problem.

Wayne

[TheDucks]

1 minute ago, Wayne K said:

I have pulled the troublesome arch today and I have it in my warm shop looking it over. 1 thing I noticed is that I have 2 led's (100 count led m6 strings and are totally sealed ) that the plastic cover has come off. Is it possible that moisture is getting in there? I have not cut any strings apart to see how the led is sealed under the plastic lens. At this point I think I am going to hit them with hot glue to possible cure the problem.

Wayne

is the string mounted on grounded METAL?  GFCI measure power in vs power returned. the must balance within a couple of mA. A series string normally divides the voltage (1200V) between the bulbs. Water in a single housing just disturbs the voltage drop. To trip the GFCI there needs to be some sort of a path to ground that was not the return pin on the plug, which led me to my first Q. Also, overly zealous tie wrap application, can cold flow the wire insulation allowing leakage to the mounting surface.

[Wayne K]

No, They are wrapped on a 10 foot 1" gray electrical pvc ( 7 arch segments ). Then I slide each end over about a foot on rebar rod in the ground.

Wayne

[TheDucks]

26 minutes ago, Wayne K said:

No, They are wrapped on a 10 foot 1" gray electrical pvc ( 7 arch segments ). Then I slide each end over about a foot on rebar rod in the ground.

Wayne

Then it is more likely pinched wires or soggy power plugs. There needs to be a path to earth that bypasses the Neutral (GFCI return).

[Wayne K]

19 hours ago, TheDucks said:

Then it is more likely pinched wires or soggy power plugs. There needs to be a path to earth that bypasses the Neutral (GFCI return).

I had it in my head that with all of the wrap's and contact with the pvc when it got wet was leaking thru to ground. Yesterday I laid the arch on my shop floor and hooked up 3 different gfi circuits to the 7 strings. I took my pump up garden sprayer and soaked the arch and then took a long insulated screw driver and clipped on a test lead to it from the earth ground on the conduit out of the breaker box and probed every 2 inches or so to see if I could trip one of the gfi's. Did not matter how much I sprayed / soaked them I could not trip a gfi. So at that point I had decided to make a some temp cords to this arch. I can't look at my wiring harness for these until I tear down. this particular wire harness goes to 2 arches and has 14 cords in it and it is the first one of many that get put down first and ends up under several more harnesses. So I got the spool of wire  out and made (4) 75 foot cords and changed out the 1-4 channel cords. And for the first time in about 2 weeks it made it thru last nights show and this mornings show and did not trip the gfi. Now 1 difference is that the temps are in the 20's and it is drier out.

So I am inclined to agree with you on a bad cord at this time. Thanks for your help

Wayne

[k6ccc]

It's stuff like this that make me glad that my show is essentially all pixels.  The only AC channels in use are the 22 channels for the two singing faces - and those are hanging from the eves on Paracord, and the controllers are completely protected under the eves.  There is also the front porch light and a security light that are all permanent installations and used year round.

The only time I had a GFCI trip was when one on my brick columns leaked and water dripped right onto a 12V 350W power supply.  GFCI tripped and the water killed the supply - so having the GFCI trip was a good thing.