JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 When I dasiy chain my 4 WOW Lights CTB16PCg3 controllers together with 4 CMB24 controllers and connect to Hardware Utility, all have solid lights and I click refresh, but sometimes HU only snags some of them, not all of them, different every time, and the 1st one isn't even always there. The order of the controllers doesn't matter, but to help explain, they're in this order: 01-05-06-03-04-02-07-08 and I might get HU to identify 01, 03, 04, 05. If I click refresh, it will pull, for example, just 02, 04. Click refresh, next result just as random. In addition, sometimes, HU will pull the name of the controller, something it will says something along the lines of "05 - cannot identify controller" or something (I am away from that PC right now, sorry for lack of specificity there). Is this type of wonkiness normal, or do I have something screwy? Would it prevent me from playing a show (my veteran LOR neighbor running LOR 2 says it is normal to be wonky, and that he thinks the shows will ultimately play fine)? But I haven't gotten that far, just trying to figure out if this step is worth stressing over. - Brand new hardware. - When I connect them one at a time to HU all is well. - Have checked Cat5s, they're fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Do not run the network alongside the Power for more than a couple of feet. Line Noise Terminate the last controller (you will need to build this. Only Gen2 Pixes have this jumper) 120ohms between 4 and 5 (usually blue pair on a CAT5) FWIW I have a mix of AC and CMB24 on the same network. Terminating did help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Something is wrong. The HU is a very stable utility. I suspect you have a cable issue or interference from the PC to the controller. Are you using a true LOR USB to RS485 adapter? Did you insure you are NOT using any Cat5 crossover cables? The daisy chain order does not matter although the HU will list them in Hex order which brings up the question about your #8. There is no such thing in Hexadecimal format. Its 00, 01, 02,03,04,05,06,07, 0A,0B,0C,0D,0E,0F, 10, 11....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Just now, dgrant said: Something is wrong. The HU is a very stable utility. I suspect you have a cable issue or interference from the PC to the controller. Are you using a true LOR USB to RS485 adapter? Did you insure you are NOT using any Cat5 crossover cables? The daisy chain order does not matter although the HU will list them in Hex order which brings up the question about your #8. There is no such thing in Hexadecimal format. Its 00, 01, 02,03,04,05,06,07, 0A,0B,0C,0D,0E,0F, 10, 11....... 08 is perfectly valid in Hex. OTOH it was not in Octal (PDP8's anyone) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheDucks said: Terminate the last controller (you will need to build this. Only Gen2 Pixes have this jumper) 120ohms between 4 and 5 (usually blue pair on a CAT5) I do not know what you mean by "terminate the last controller" so I am more than a little lost by the rest. Can you give me a little more to google off of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TheDucks said: 08 is perfectly valid in Hex. OTOH it was not in Octal (PDP8's anyone) My bad. Yes, I was thinking of two 8-bit octal words making one 16 bit hex word. Back in the day and direct cpu programming, that's how we did it. lol, or lets mess it up and use Assembler and 3 8 bit octal words for a 24 bit cpu. Edit, so yes, 08, 09 are indeed valid. Edited November 30, 2022 by dgrant Correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Just now, JD Graffam said: I do not know what you mean by "terminate the last controller" so I am more than a little lost by the rest. Can you give me a little more to google off of? RS485 is supposed to have a resistor at the end (AKA Terminator). This is a common technique for data lines (Keep the square wave signal squarer) or RF signals (reduces signal reflections). We make them from a (old) patch cord (usually retired because the tang broke) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 "I suspect you have a cable issue or interference from the PC to the controller." Perhaps, this is it. My Cat5 into the first one is quite long, running across a lot of power cords. "Are you using a true LOR USB to RS485 adapter?" Yes, I am. "Did you insure you are NOT using any Cat5 crossover cables?" No crossovers, that I am aware of. I made my own, though, so will double check when the sun comes back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) Did you test each cable prior to using it? Most all the ones that I make are to the T-568B model which work really nice. Edited November 30, 2022 by dgrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 Yep. The individual cables work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 If you used a cat5 tester and it passed, that is fine. BUT all those controllers hav Aux power on other pins and a flipped pair might drag down the logic power. With the control panel running (and no HU), check the status LED on each controller. They should ALL be steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 The OP said in first post all controller lights were on steady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 minute ago, JD Graffam said: Yep. The individual cables work fine. Sorry, but 'work' individually is not a valid test when meshing with others. Just 1 flipped pair (3-6) can cause issued (new pixies have a jumper to isolate these) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, dgrant said: The OP said in first post all controller lights were on steady 🥴 Missed that. Back to Noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) May I suggest that you start with only one controller connected. Scan with the HU and see what shows up. If its the one you expect, add one more and scan again. I've got 18 RS485 controllers and no terminations on two paths out of one LOR network repeater. As the Ducks suggested, its probably inducted noise. Do you use actual Cat5/5E,6 cable to make your patch cables? Edited November 30, 2022 by dgrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 26 minutes ago, dgrant said: If its the one you expect, add one more and scan again. I'll try this tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 49 minutes ago, dgrant said: Do you use actual Cat5/5E,6 cable to make your patch cables? Yep, I do. I only made my long run to controller 01, the shorties came from WOWLights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 57 minutes ago, TheDucks said: Just 1 flipped pair (3-6) That makes sense. I will visually inspect and test them all again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD Graffam Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 SOLVED I am sharing here what ended up working for me in case it helps anyone else some day. I connected controller 1 then refreshed HU, then added controller 2 and checked HU, controller 3 and checked HU, and so on. As I connected them, I adjusted the placement of cat5 and power cords to minimize interference. I triple checked Cat5 colors. Everything was going fine until I got all of them up and running, showing up in HU, solid lights, all was well and them all of the sudden, I lost connection and the network messed itself. But I noticed it happened as I tripped on a cable. This led me to inspect the nearest connection, which was controller 1. It was a wiggly port, I adjusted it and it came back online. It was very touchy. Check your ports, y'all. Thanks, all for the help with troubleshooting steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMassey Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Strain Relief, Strain Relief, Strain Relief, Also avoid booted Cat 5 cables as they can get pushed on by the enclosure door. Cat 6 is stiff ad can have the same issue. If your handy with a soldering iron you can reflow the solder on the backside of the loose jack. A rework hot air gun works too. Many many good Cat 5 cables go to their demise on account of a wiggly port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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