Show different on different computers using same files?

[k6ccc]

Here at the house, there are three computers with LOR installed.  On all three of them, the LOR files are pointing to a mapped network drive on my server.  In other words, the LOR folders appear to be L:\ which is really \\Jupiter\Shared\LOR - also known as D:\Shared\LOR on Jupiter (the file server).  In the past that has meant that any change from any of the three computers will appear on the other two without having to do anything special.  About the only exception is that Network Preferences is unique to each computer (I assume that is in the registry).

For a test of something unrelated, I made a simple change to the one animation sequence in my Year-round_Overnight show from the family room computer,   As always, the revised sequence was saved with a new name.  I then opened the Show Editor for the overnight show from the Control panel and added "Landscaping Overnight 2022-09-22.loredit", and then removed "Landscaping Overnight 2021-01-03.loredit" from the show.  Saved the show, and noted that the show "Needs prep: 3".  Then I noted that all of my shows also needed prep.  That surprised me since several of those have been running since the beginning of the S6 beta.  Clicked the icon to prep the show.

Now here's where it gets stranger.  I remoted into the server which is what runs the landscaping show, and was a little surprised that it did not show a need to prep the show.  So I clicked on the overnight show and it still had "Landscaping Overnight 2021-01-03.loredit" in the show - and not the replacement sequence.

So in other words, even though the three computers are using the same files, the shows edited on one computer did not appear on another one of the computers.  Is it supposed to be this way?

As a test, I exited the Control Panel on the server, and restarted it.  It still was not seeing the change to the overnight show.

Jupiter:

Light-O-Rama S6 Control Panel (64-bit)
Version 6.1.2
Copyright 2022 Light-O-Rama, Inc.
Pro Edition
Registered to: Jim Walls

Microsoft Windows Server 2019 Essentials 64-bit
Intel® Xeon® CPU   L5520 @ 2.27GHz
Microsoft Basic Display Adapter

Family room:

Light-O-Rama S6 Control Panel (64-bit)
Version 6.1.2
Copyright 2022 Light-O-Rama, Inc.
Pro Edition
Registered to: Jim Walls

Microsoft Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Intel® Core™ i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 Ti
Intel® UHD Graphics 630

 

[k6ccc]

Bump.

Since I originally wrote this, the server has rebooted several times (weekly reboot), and the Control Panel has been restarted several more times.  The server show editor is still showing the old version of the Overnight show.  So it strongly suggests that the show editor is saving the shows in someplace other than the "normal" LOR directory structure.

Additionally, while trying to test something else, I created a new show on the Family room PC, and then looked at the Control Panel on the Server, and the new does not show up at all.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by k6ccc

[k6ccc]

Now that Christmas is over, @MattBrownanything on this?

 

[k6ccc]

Same problem still exists on S6.2.0

 

[k6ccc]

Slight change with 6.2.0.  A new show created on one computer will be seen on a different computer that is using the same directory structure, but only after restarting the control panel.  Off hand, I am going to guess that changes will be the same way, but I have not tested that yet.  I will test that in the next day or two.  However, even if "Needs Prep" is completed on one computer, it will still need to be done on the second computer.  So obviously, each computer is storing data someplace other than the normal LOR directory structure.

 

[Jeremiah Ackermann]

One thing that is not stored in the directory structure but can affect show files are networks, which is saved in the registry last I knew. Its just the state of an LOR network being enhanced or not that matters I believe.

Setting the show directory to a shared network location can be very nice but also problematic since multiple computers are wanting to read/write to the same files. It’s likely one computer is overwriting another when both are running. It’s also likely the software is not setup to get notifications that some of these files are changing and the show list needs to be refreshed. Explains why restart of the control panel will list the added show. So in the end, not surprised to see some issues using the software in this manner, even though it would be nice if it could. The same issues could exist with a single computer and using some cloud hosted drive/folder as well. Really the same problems.

[k6ccc]

9 minutes ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

One thing that is not stored in the directory structure but can affect show files are networks, which is saved in the registry last I knew. Its just the state of an LOR network being enhanced or not that matters I believe.

Network Preferences has always been computer specific - and needs to be.  I had assumed it was in the registry somewhere.  If you have multiple networks, speed, ELOR, and which comm port should matter.

12 minutes ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

Setting the show directory to a shared network location can be very nice but also problematic since multiple computers are wanting to read/write to the same files. It’s likely one computer is overwriting another when both are running.

I've been saving everything on a shared network directory since S3 and it has always worked perfectly - until S6.

13 minutes ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

It’s also likely the software is not setup to get notifications that some of these files are changing and the show list needs to be refreshed. Explains why restart of the control panel will list the added show.

That certainly is a possibility.  At the very least, a "Refresh" button on the control panel would be nice so it can force a check without exiting and restarting the control panel - or better, the ability to schedule that check (something like every day at 1100).  Still does not explain why "Prep Show" is NOT carried from one computer to another.

 

[Jeremiah Ackermann]

4 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Still does not explain why "Prep Show" is NOT carried from one computer to another.

The Network preferences can be a reason, which is why I mentioned it. If you add a DMX network and update status, the show is still ready to play if it was previously ready to play. Same if you change a COM port, network name, etc. The only network change that will cause the show needing to be prepared again will be an LOR network changed to enhanced from non-enhanced or vice versa. Because those settings are not synced between computers, the client computer may think it needs to recreate the show files and recreates them. Then the sever computer may see the files need to be recreated IF the same network has a different Enhanced setting.

Obviously sequence and preview changes will require show files to be recreated. How a sequence change is detected I am not sure, it may be based on file dates. Perhaps see if both computers are showing the last modified date/time exactly the same.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Jeremiah Ackermann

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

How a sequence change is detected I am not sure, it may be based on file dates. Perhaps see if both computers are showing the last modified date/time exactly the same.

Pretty much everything at the house is using my Stratum 1 NTP for time.

 

[Jeremiah Ackermann]

Out of curiosity, what does the player log on the Play Shows page tell you if you run the show prep when it shouldn't be needed? The log should be showing why it recreates playback files.

The Light-O-Rama\LORInternal\Playback directory should just have the file once, but perhaps the file is being placed in multiple locations there. A quick file search should for "XYZFile.loredit.lorplay" should be sufficient.

[k6ccc]

13 minutes ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

Out of curiosity, what does the player log on the Play Shows page tell you if you run the show prep when it shouldn't be needed? The log should be showing why it recreates playback files.

I started the Family room (Sequencing) computer and confirmed that it showed that the Year-round_Evening show Needs prep: 7.  This show runs every single night from the server.  Clicked the prep button and got this in the Player log:

Quote

2023-04-04 15:55:22    Scheduler    Information    Schedule loaded
2023-04-04 15:56:27    Scheduler    Information    Enable schedule requested
2023-04-04 15:58:09    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping startup 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:10    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening fast 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:12    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening slow 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:14    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping transition 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:14    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from door 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:14    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from walkway 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 15:58:14    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from driveway 2022-02-09.loredit
 

There are no networks configured on the sequencing computer - although there should have been 108 Universes for my P5 & P10 matricies (they were there at least a few months ago).

22 minutes ago, Jeremiah Ackermann said:

The Light-O-Rama\LORInternal\Playback directory should just have the file once, but perhaps the file is being placed in multiple locations there.

Then looked at the playback and there are new playback files that apparently replaced the previous ones:

http://www.newburghlights.org/images/Playback_2023-04-04.png

 

Then looked at the show player log on the server - which should be playing the evening landscape show (or at least waiting for the start trigger).  The log shows:

Quote

2023-04-04 08:08:25    Scheduler    Information    Schedule loaded
2023-04-04 08:09:40    Scheduler    Information    Enable schedule requested
2023-04-04 15:55:00    Player    Information    L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.lss - Playback File Initialization
2023-04-04 15:55:00    Player    Information    Started show: L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.lss
2023-04-04 15:55:00    Player    Information    Starting Animation: L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.las
2023-04-04 15:56:00    Scheduler    Information    Request received to stop show: AfterSong
2023-04-04 15:56:00    Player    Information    Shutting down show gracefully: L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.lss
2023-04-04 15:56:00    Player    Information    Stopping Animation: L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.las
2023-04-04 15:56:00    Player    Information    Finished show: L:\Sequences\Relay pulser.lss
2023-04-04 16:00:00    Player    Information    L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss - Playback File Initialization
2023-04-04 16:00:00    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening fast 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:06    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening fast 2021-01-03.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:07    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening slow 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:13    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening slow 2021-01-03.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:13    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping transition 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:17    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping transition 2022-02-09.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:17    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping startup 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:21    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping startup 2022-02-09.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:21    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from door 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:25    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from door 2022-02-09.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:25    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from walkway 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:29    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from walkway 2022-02-09.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:29    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from driveway 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:00:33    Player    Error    Unable to create playback file for 'L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from driveway 2022-02-09.loredit'. The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process.
2023-04-04 16:00:33    Player    Information    Registering startup trigger for L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:00:33    Player    Information    Started show: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss

Realized that the Family room computer was trying to play the evening show and that messed up the server.  Shut down the control panel on the sequencing computer and then stopped and started the player on the server (show on demand since that's the only way to start a show that should already be running by schedule).  This was added to the player log on the server.

Quote

2023-04-04 16:13:48    Scheduler    Information    Request received to stop show: Immediately
2023-04-04 16:13:48    Scheduler    Information    The end time for 'Year-round_Evening' has been changed to 16:13.
2023-04-04 16:13:48    Player    Information    Clearing startup trigger for L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:13:48    Player    Information    Shutting down show: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:13:48    Player    Information    Clearing startup trigger for L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:13:48    Player    Information    Finished show: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:14:12    Scheduler    Information    Request received to start show on demand: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss, Until 22:00
2023-04-04 16:14:13    Player    Information    L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss - Playback File Initialization
2023-04-04 16:14:13    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening fast 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:15    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping evening slow 2021-01-03.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:17    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping transition 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Landscaping startup 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from door 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from walkway 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Creating new playback file because LOR enhanced networks have changed: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Steps up from driveway 2022-02-09.loredit
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Registering startup trigger for L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
2023-04-04 16:14:18    Player    Information    Started show: L:\Sequences\Year round landscaping\Year-round_Evening.lss
 

 

So clearly the two computers are seriously messing each other up - which did not happen in S5.

 

[Jeremiah Ackermann]

Based on what I see above, it looks like playback files are being recreated because enhanced LOR differences. If the networks are correct in your server, export them and then import them on your sequencing computers. Or at the very least, have the LOR networks exactly the same.

It is possible the registry has stray settings causing issues too (LOR network not defined but enhanced setting is still used), which is why the full export and import is a better option to try.

[k6ccc]

Had to think about this, but I think I can work around all this.  Please sanity check my logic - sorry, this will get long.

Problem #1:  For all practical purposes, I can not have the network preferences the same for the sequencing computer, show computer (October - January), and server (January - October).  Although I could have the LOR networks the same, the DMX (E1.31) can not be.  The server plays the year round landscaping and needs universes 1 - 5.  The show computer adds universes 41 - 44 (roof & eves) for Halloween, and 11 - 40 (pixel tree), 51 - 56 (yard stuff), 101 - 136 (P10 matrix) and 201 - 272 (P5 matrix) for Christmas.  The catch is that the sequencing computer needs the P5 and P10 matricies during the off season as I do have those operational in my family room and test stuff regularly on them.

If the only "Needs Prep" issue is the LOR networks, I could set those the same even though the sequencing computer never has USB to RS-485 adapters plugged in.  The sequencing computer does play sequences regularly from Sequencer, but never plays shows.  Because there is E1.31, the Control Panel needs to be running on the sequencing computer, so I can't have it sending E1.31 data to the year round landscaping controllers.

As a test, I created two new shows: 6.2-FamRm and 6.2-Jupiter.  The FamRm show was created on the Family room computer and the Jupiter show was created on the server.  After creating them, neither control panel recognized that the show created on the other computer existed.  However, the control panel on both computers was shut down and then restarted, and both computers showed both shows.  Next, on Jupiter, an additional song was added to the Jupiter show, and on the family room PC an additional song was added to the the FamRm show.  In both cases, each computer did not show that the show edited on the other computer had been changed.  This screen capture shows this condition.  Note the show run times for the two shows comparing them between computers (if the image does not show, there is a link to it).

http://www.newburghlights.org/images/6.2_Control-panel-1.png

When I started this thread on S6.1.2, even after exiting and restarting the CP, a computer would not recognize show changes made on the other computer.  This has changed.  Now after exiting and restarting the CP, both computers DO correctly show changes that were made by the other computer.  Huge improvement!

At the time of the above screen capture, you can see that the Family room PC has zero networks configured.  After that, I added the same LOR networks plus the P5 and P10 E1.31 networks to the Family Room computer.  Then I did the "Needs Prep" for both the 6.2-FamRm and 6.2-Jupiter shows.  This was all done on the Family Room computer.  As expected, when I looked at Jupiter, it still showed "Needs Prep" on both 6.2 shows.  Shut down and then started the CP on Jupiter.  Great news is that Jupiter showed both show as "Ready to play".  That goes along with your belief that it's the LOR networks that forced the need to Prep between computers.

Well, we just had a power failure and it seems that the UPS that feeds this desk needs new batteries.  Thankfully my edit here was saved except for the last few moments.

Gotta do work, so I'll finish this thought a bit later...

 

[Jimehc]

there use to be a Refresh or Update button - most like in the dropdown menu now...

As i would have the same show created nightly - would prep the first nights show files -

but would not display the other nights show as prepped, until I updated/refreshed the window,

then all nights displayed as prepped. (without restart of software)

Edited April 5, 2023 by Jimehc

[Jeremiah Ackermann]

5 hours ago, k6ccc said:

Although I could have the LOR networks the same

Yeah, that is all that is needed for the Needs Prep. The network export and import is just a quick way to get them the same since there can be so many LOR networks defined. Using Process Monitor, I tracked down the modified registry keys (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Light-O-Rama\Shared\Network8F72A9B83F6E4343B4278D7A9AC5649A), so you could set them directly if a rogue LOR network is set to the wrong enhance setting.

Its not exactly an issue with the software per say since most of the time network configs need to be per machine (if you take away serial devices, its not as problematic) AND would prefer the playback files be created just once. But because the enhanced setting changes how the playback file is created with S6, sharing the LOR directory across computers can be problematic if LOR networks are in use.

Your logic above all makes sense, the software can work with a shared directory, but it could be improved for sure. I imagine most people don't use a shared network drive, a few more using OneDrive/DropBox/etc, and the rest are keeping the default directory path and no 3rd party software that would sync its contents from other computers.

[k6ccc]

Been a while since I had time to post here on this subject.  I think this is going to work OK as long as I understand the requirements.  The big one is that if a sequence or show is modified on one computer, I MUST restart the Control Panel on whichever computer is running the show in order for the computer playing the show to recognize the change.  Generally not a big issue - especially for the year round landscape lighting.  More on Christmas later...  Second requirement is that in Network Preferences, the LOR networks MUST be configured the same on all involved computers.  Also not an issue since the sequencing computer has no USB to RS-485 adapters plugged in, and shows are never played from the Show Player on the sequencing computer.  In other words, I can configure the sequencing computer any way I want without have any operational issue other than the LOR networks MUST match the configuration of the LOR networks on the computer playing the show.    Which DMX networks are configured does not need to match between the various computers.  That lets me test sequencing on the P5 and P10 matrix panels during the off season from the sequencing computer without bothering the running show - and vice versa.  As long as the LOR networks match between the sequencing computer and the show computer, I can create or modify shows on the sequencing computer, prep them, and they will be ready to go on the show computer.

One thing I have not tested is if a sequence is modified without changing the file name on one computer, and prepped will it play the modified version without any action on the computer playing the show.  The classic example is if while watching the show, a change is found to be needed, can you sequence the change on another computer and have it play the new version on the show computer.  That is something I can test fairly easily.

For Christmas, at least at this point, I will likely have to fall back to S5 for the Christmas show due to my requirement to be able to run BobO's great MIIP program.  Now if only the S6 Control Panel would detect that a show changed like the S5 (and prior) Show Player did, it would work with MIIP.

I would agree that people using a shared network drive for their LOR file storage is a small percentage, but I know for fact that it is more than just me....  And a lot of people are using on-line storage for sharing files between different computers - although I HIGHLY recommend against running your shows from any on-line storage.  I did that for Halloween one year (music only, not LOR files), and of course my internet decided that was the time to get flaky!

[PhilMassey]

Which begs the question.

Will a sequence modified with S6 still work with a rollback to S5, given the changes and the new effects.

[k6ccc]

13 minutes ago, PhilMassey said:

Will a sequence modified with S6 still work with a rollback to S5, given the changes and the new effects.

At least at this point, I am not expecting to use any of the new Motion Effects since I sequence essentially entirely in SuperStar, I don't expect a problem, but that could well be for people using the new effects.

 

[Jimehc]

S5 does not Preview Playback or show in Sequencer any of the New S6 Motion Effects..

[k6ccc]

46 minutes ago, Jimehc said:

S5 does not Preview Playback or show in Sequencer any of the New S6 Motion Effects..

But will the Show Player play it?