Best approach for singing tree props (not on pixel tree or matrix) ?

[TexasLights]

I was looking to add a singing tree prop to my display this year.  Maybe bulb and/or tree versus having a face on the Pixel tree which I have done in the past.  Before buying anything, I wanted to try programming it.   I tried a couple of different ones and I can see how to get them into LOR sequencer and animate them.    But I wanted to give Superstar a try and it doesn't seem like these are really setup for that without some effort.   Not that I mind putting in some effort, but it seemed like what i was doing was what most people would do.   I can find videos on xlights where it seems more targeted at faces with actual settings for different options where as with Superstar, I first had to create a mapping for each mouth and eye movement.   It only has 5 faces in auto-sequence so if I want to have eyes open and closed, I have to do that manually.  Plus, if I want to do different colors, it seems like I also have to recreate it in superstar.  I could see doing the face part in superstar nd the outline in sequencer.  Probably good for some simple sequencing.    I sat through several of the sessions with Don where he was able to do the sequencing by hand but having quite a few songs to do, looking to make the best use of my time.     So just looking for advice from the group.

[dibblejr]

Doing them by hand IMO is “making the best use of your time” for singing props.

Unlike non singing props a fraction of a second in timing of mouth movements is critical unless you want the old Kung Fu movie look.

Who is Don teaching singing faces? Not sure I know him.

Once you get used to sequencing them manually you get faster just like everything else. Crawl, walk and then run.

Best of luck

JR

[TexasLights]

Thanks JR, I must admit that I do a lot by hand, but I really like it when the software can help out.   The Don I referred to was Don Teague, who did some sessions last year.   But it may have been someone else in one of the LOR sessions that spent about 30 minutes doing about 30 seconds of a song.   

I did find one "shortcut" that works (somewhat )and I suppose some on here might think it sounds like more work than doing it manually. 

This was the process in S5 I used (some of which I only need to do once)   

I created a simple preview that just had 6 props with 1 bulb each stacked and a group an motion effect row for them.  that is, Outside, top, middle, lower, bottom and full and a group called Face. 

I then took a vocal stem file (from ezstems) and created a new sequence for it using my preview above.

I then used Superstar for the Face group

I used superstar auto sequencer for singing faces using combinations that mapped to my singing tree mouth patterns more of less.  Superstar does 5 called closed, 1/4/ 1/2 3/4 and full.   So as an example, Closed was Outside and Bottom, 1/2 was outside, top and middle, etc.

Before closing superstar, I used export to sequence editor option to save the result as an LMS file. 

Now back in sequencer, I opened the lms file I created using export using the simple preview and I now have the various mouth movements.  

Finally I copy and pasted those into my actual sequence for the respective rows.   

The result was reasonably good and now I can spend my time tweaking that where it doesn't look quite right and playing with the outline, eyes and the decorations.   

 

. 

 

[Box on Rails]

I use 10 different mouth positions(10 Motion effects Rows) on my Face props along with 3 additional ME rows for eyes open, eyes closed and A tongue effect that I use with the "L" and "TH" Mouth position. The 10 Mouth ME rows allow for better and more real looking animation. in Addition I use Papaguyo to get a starting point and once that data is imported into the S5 I fine tune the animation. I have never used superstar for animation so I can't comment on that but I would suggest try all the methods suggested here and find what works best for you. bottom line is there is no quick way to do face animation if you are looking for Good animation. Good animation takes a little bit of time to do. When I started with inconstant light singing faces years ago I used the standard 5 mouth position that I animated by had that took forever and the animation just didn't look right to me.  Today all my animated faces are Smart RGB and I used 9 animated faces in my Halloween and Christmas displays. 2022 will be my first year with all smart animated faces I have done some test on the new faces and wow the 10 mouth positions really help make the animation look good. Mine is just another way not the only. Be well and Have fun with it. 

[TexasLights]

The prop I am using has 8 pieces.   That is one of the reasons I did not use superstar exclusively (which I suspect some people wondered about).   I want to use a variety of S5 motion effects for the outline and eyes, etc., not just a static color.   I have a lot going in the display and I can tolerate a little out of sync.   I did 4 sequences with rough animation in a day trying this out and it worked reasonably well.   

But open to more suggestions or alternatives. 

Sample here 

https://vimeo.com/702962992

[Box on Rails]

5 hours ago, TexasLights said:

The prop I am using has 8 pieces.   That is one of the reasons I did not use superstar exclusively (which I suspect some people wondered about).   I want to use a variety of S5 motion effects for the outline and eyes, etc., not just a static color.   I have a lot going in the display and I can tolerate a little out of sync.   I did 4 sequences with rough animation in a day trying this out and it worked reasonably well.   

But open to more suggestions or alternatives. 

Sample here 

https://vimeo.com/702962992

I'm a bit confused about how you convert superstar mouth movements in to Motion effects Rows for your tree prop. when you say your prop is using 8 pieces do you mean 8 motion effects rows?

[Vince4xmas]

JR is the man when asking any questions regarding singing faces!

[dibblejr]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:59 PM, Box on Rails said:

I'm a bit confused about how you convert superstar mouth movements in to Motion effects Rows for your tree prop. when you say your prop is using 8 pieces do you mean 8 motion effects rows?

ME rows work best for the outline since there are things you can do with the outline. I also have the channel level as well. For the mouths you can use either or but really no need fr ME's since it would highly unusual to use the mouths without an outline. There are some that do it for HAlloween and some that do have mouths without an outline for some faces but its an exception.

Either way there is no right or wrong , its whats easier for you and make you happy.

JR

[dibblejr]

On 4/25/2022 at 6:45 PM, Vince4xmas said:

JR is the man when asking any questions regarding singing faces!

Thank you my friend. I haven't forgotten your sequences. 

JR

[Box on Rails]

9 hours ago, dibblejr said:

ME rows work best for the outline since there are things you can do with the outline. I also have the channel level as well. For the mouths you can use either or but really no need fr ME's since it would highly unusual to use the mouths without an outline. There are some that do it for HAlloween and some that do have mouths without an outline for some faces but its an exception.

Either way there is no right or wrong , its whats easier for you and make you happy.

JR

Jr has got it down for sure. I do it similar but a little different. For me, using Papaguyo as the starting point, I like to use Motion effects rows for the Mouth Movements. Keep in mind I am using all smart Pixels on my faces and in my experience the best part about using ME rows is that I can assign motion effects to faces and all the mouth movements in the animation. Second I never have to use the channel level to animate. I put this little simple video together to show an animated pumpkin with the custom Lava Motion effect across the entire prop. Personally, I am with JR when it comes to Motion effects and very rarely do I animate the Mouths with anything other then a solid Color Wash effect. 

 

[TexasLights]

On 4/25/2022 at 5:59 PM, Box on Rails said:

I'm a bit confused about how you convert superstar mouth movements in to Motion effects Rows for your tree prop. when you say your prop is using 8 pieces do you mean 8 motion effects rows?

I have 8, but only the outline and the mouth movements were controlled by the superstar output, then I use traditional motion effects on the eyes, and other effects 

[TexasLights]

Box on Rails, I also am animated the motion effects once I have, its just a different technique than the papagayo approach to get the original movements.   I was already using superstar to animate my pixel tree so it was one less thing to learn.   But I am still experimenting and really appreciate your video.