Need to know basic needs

[NLC]

I would like to put together a simple light show for our rural community at my church. I need to present an itemized list of the cost for the board to approve. Without lights, extension cords, and framing I have this list started. Is there more I will need or am I doubling up on items.

2 - PRO Series Addon LOR1602Wg3

N4-G4-MP3 Director

SPK-ST Generic Starter Package

Software - Basic Version

 

[dgrant]

I usually suggest that a new person start with a photo(s) of the area you are going to light up. Then draw strings of lights on those areas and how you envision them working with the music you select. Also adding in if props are used and so on. Then, decide how you want them to look and work. Simple AC strings, will usually do the on/off, dim/fades up and down, twinkle, shimmer and etc...but if you wish to change colors, things change. Yes, you could hang multiple different colored strings and use them on different channels. If you wish to change colors for example on a single string, then you need different controls. There are essentially three types of LEDs. Straight AC LED strings, Never ever use Martha LED strings from Home Depot as they've been known to start fires. Dumb LED strings/strips, these are 12VDC only and require a specific controller, power supply, enclosure, communication lines and etc...The advantage is that these dumb strings/strips will all light up one color, any color and you can change on the fly. Lastly are the Intelligent Pixels/Nodes?Strips. These require a specialized controller, power supply, enclosure, communications. They come in many flavors as such but allow you to do chases, animations and much more, depending on your needs. Depending on the needs again, will dictate your hardware requirements which will also dictate your license level.

[TheDucks]

Consider Controller placements. You want to minimize cables in traffic patterns, thus you may have 32 ports (AC Channels), but some may be on the wrong side from where needed.

 

 

[NLC]

Thank you for your input. My display will mainly be in a 50ft square area. I have seen about wireless communication from controller to computer to  eliminate cords where traffic is. Am I correct on this?  I want to give an accurate proposal to the church board so they really would know the total cost. I just wanna make sure I have everything listed that I am not familiar with so my estimate is precise.

Edited February 4, 2022 by NLC

[NLC]

dgrant, thank you for information. I plan to keep it simple the first year. We are a church so plan making an mp3 of our musicians, narration and light effects to add to what I plan. I plan on only 2 colored lights. White and not decided yet. I know I will need to program lights to music so with what i listed in original post what more do you suggest. Will take in account about the lights that you said can cause fire hazard. 

[NLC]

Also TheDucks, i plan on having 2 mirrored effects. So I would have one controller on each side with extras plugged in on corresponding sides.  

[TheDucks]

4 minutes ago, NLC said:

Thank you for your input. My display will mainly be in a 50ft square area. I have seen about wireless communication from controller to computer to  eliminate cords where traffic is. Am I correct on this?  I want to give an accurate proposal to the church board so they really would know the total cost. I just wanna make sure I have everything listed that I am not familiar with so my estimate is precise.

The ELL only REPLACES some of the CAT5 portion of your show. It is also speed limited (NOT for Pixel controllers).  Since you elected the N4G4, there should be less need for

Sorry, but 50 sq ft does not tell me about traffic (pathways) inside that area. I was thinking more about extension cords.

BTW LOR has a 1602 WITH the MP3g4 built in, (1 box), and that can be used with additional Add-on units.

I believe the Starter pack comes with a Black dongle, which will be used to update firmware (if needed). Note that requires a temporary WIRED connection

 

[TheDucks]

4 minutes ago, NLC said:

Also TheDucks, i plan on having 2 mirrored effects. So I would have one controller on each side with extras plugged in on corresponding sides.  

The N4G4 director can run lots of dumb controllers, they just need inter connection.

[dgrant]

To the best of my knowledge, the LOR systems do not allow for active microphone or live music to convert into lights to the sound source. You manually "sequence" lights to music via the software therefore you can play the same music selections with their "sequenced" light programs, whenever you wish, but they are always the same unless you manually re-sequence them. I don't want you to get the wrong idea that you can hook up to a live musical session in your church and expect the lights to keep synced. Now that does not mean you can't figure out a way to do just that, but so far, I've not heard of anyone who has. For all I know, maybe it's been done!

Edit: I just wanted to clarify. Yes, I saw where you referred to the MP3 playback, so you're ok there.

Edited February 4, 2022 by dgrant

[Al Saunders]

Hi NLC,

The other hardware item you'll need is either an FM transmitter if you will be broadcasting over radio to vehicles driving or stopping by or some outdoor/waterproof speakers if the visitors will be walking through the display. 

Also if you will be having people walk through the display and have paths for them you may want to consider cable covers like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Eapele-Protector-Prevent-Outdoor-Settings/dp/B07WY5J9FV/ref=sxin_13_pa_sp_search_thematic_sspa?crid=1EKKSBZU5FGBZ&cv_ct_cx=outdoor%2Bcable%2Bcovers&keywords=outdoor%2Bcable%2Bcovers&pd_rd_i=B07WY5J9FV&pd_rd_r=35a37164-6f5b-4840-b55c-d6acf94921ba&pd_rd_w=S9xPk&pd_rd_wg=XbTqe&pf_rd_p=4ad71b32-b810-4124-8735-d02a39478d0c&pf_rd_r=MW08ZJJRQMY21X1Z4Y6W&qid=1643995260&sprefix=outdoor%2Bcable%2Bcovers%2Caps%2C116&sr=1-2-a73d1c8c-2fd2-4f19-aa41-2df022bcb241-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTTJSMEcwUTZON00zJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwOTQ2MjI1UzFFT0dPSjZTQUtNJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NzI2MTQ4TzVPNE1RRkJJQTEmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9zZWFyY2hfdGhlbWF0aWMmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl&th=1

I'm not sure if i use the same brand but they look just like the ones I use and I got from Amazon. They work great! If you do go this route, you may want to make sure your power cables are in one cover and your cat5 cable(s) are in another to prevent signal problems. I would think speaker wires could go in there too if you use speakers. 

[TheDucks]

Like Al

I use the d-line brand that has MULTIPLE channels so that I can keep the NETWORK cable away from power (AC) or the DC light signals  (less chance of noise being coupled to the LOR Network.

[NLC]

The input you are giving me is very helpful.   Do need to have FM transmitter because we would be setting up on the lawn of the church and they would park in the parking lot. We are a rural church out of town in the country, are you both saying Interference would come from my equipment?

[NLC]

dgrunt. No didn’t expect to do live. Plan on working on music through the summer and when my sound-man has made a finished work then I would go through and sequence the lights. 

[Al Saunders]

Yes, the power/extension cords may cause the signal in your cat5 cable going from your controllers to have "Interference" that may cause them to mess up your effects during the sequence. It may not but it COULD, so to prevent any issues messing up your show you should have them not be right next to each other. Especially if you are using the SPT/zip cords as they don't have shielding. If you need them to be near each other I would cross them at some point instead of running them next to each other. This is true both in a cover or just out on the ground. 😃

I see you're quite a way up in PA! I'm on the Eastern Shore of MD. 

Good luck with your show and project, hope we've helped. 

Have a great afternoon and stay safe.

Al

[k6ccc]

27 minutes ago, NLC said:

Do need to have FM transmitter because we would be setting up on the lawn of the church and they would park in the parking lot.

Pretty much yes.  To get to people inside their cars, you would need either a lot of audio power into speakers or a way to get the audio into their cars.  The normal way to do that is an FM radio.  Being in PA, I would assume it will be cold enough that people will want to have the windows rolled up and the engine running to keep the heater on.

 

[NLC]

k6ccc
https://www.signstek.com/products/st-07c?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk_m1puHm9QIVOgaICR0TwwOPEAQYAiABEgLWb_D_BwE
 

Will this serve my needs?

[k6ccc]

It would work, but even on it's low power setting (one watt), it's about 10 times the legal power limit for part 15 operations here in the USA.

Do a search on Amazon for cze-05b or czh-05b.  Lots of options.

 

[canadianchristmas]

23 minutes ago, NLC said:

k6ccc
https://www.signstek.com/products/st-07c?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIk_m1puHm9QIVOgaICR0TwwOPEAQYAiABEgLWb_D_BwE
 

Will this serve my needs?

I'm not Kc, but I'll be the first to tell you nooooooooo.

Don't use that.

Firstly it is a 7w transmitter, that is way too much power for what we are doing, you could get more range than you ever anticipated and could cause interference (more on that later).

Furthermore if you are using that much power with a rubber duck antenna, or some other small telescopic antenna  you are likely to damage the transmitter at some point due to poor SWR performance with that high of a wattage. Basically you will likely have some of that power feeding back into the transmitter. A good antenna is always key, like a nice well tuned dipole.

Another note is that a lot of those "transmitters on a chip" usually use crappy chips. I can't speak for the BH1415 specifically as I don't personally know about that one..

But a lot of them are crap and best to be avoided.

The one you linked looks like a clone of the CZH-7C, which is a POS, that can cause a lot of spurious harmonics on the band, interfering with other frequencies and bands that you didn't intend.

 

For my shows I personally use a EDM transmitter. https://www.edmdesign.com/

I heard recently on DIYC that their order page is down right now due to not having any enclosures but apparently they are still taking orders over email.

Another pick would be one of the PCS electronics transmitter (exciter units) like this one: https://www.pcs-electronics.com/shop/fm-transmitters/fm-transmitter-kits/maxpro8015-25-15w-25w-superbass-fm-exciter/

Keep in mind that a lot of the PCS kits can run up to 15w so you will obviously want to turn that down to around 100mw-ish.

Another nice clean kit, would be the Dutch RF shop exciter..

But be warned when you start to get into more "professional" level transmitter/exciter units you will likely need a stereo generator to drive an MPX signal to it, which adds another layer of complexity and could introduce a noticeable delay or cause over modulation, if it isn't configured properly. But that is a topic for another time. 

I am just rambling at this point lol. I like broadcast and radio stuff.
 

Edited February 4, 2022 by canadianchristmas

[canadianchristmas]

A few other notes that came to mind, would be that you could use a cheaper chip based transmitter like the CZH-05B, a lot of people in the Christmas light community use that model. BUT I would recommend first feeding the signal through a low pass filter before the antenna. Basically just to filter out any spurs, and to try and get the cleanest signal you can out of it.

 

Lastly my final transmitter recommendation that I would consider a gold standard would be NRG based out of New Zealand. I would say they are the best of the best you could get for the price in the hobbyist and LPFM scope of things. But they are also very expensive and totally overkill for christmas lights, but still very awesome.

[NLC]

On 2/3/2022 at 6:16 AM, NLC said:

I would like to put together a simple light show for our rural community at my church. I need to present an itemized list of the cost for the board to approve. Without lights, extension cords, and framing I have this list started. Is there more I will need or am I doubling up on items.

2 - PRO Series Addon LOR1602Wg3

N4-G4-MP3 Director

SPK-ST Generic Starter Package

Software - Basic Version

 

This is an update on my orginal post. I am thankful for input, have been sick for a week and have not done anything. I decided I would 0only need one controller at first. I have included a picture of what I plan  Very simple display this year and as I have said on previous post the trees are mirrored. the displays are silhouettes used before spotlighted at different times.