SingleBlock effect (chase) on custom motion effect rows

[Red Lily Way Christmas]

The spoke is a prop where concentric circles are created (ie a spinner prop).   Take the example of a spinner with 7 circles each with 28 pixels.  I can add motion effect rows for each circle.  Each one is a 28x1 rectangle.  For one of these circles, I can apply a singleblock two color affect using left or right motion and two colors are chased around on that circle then stops after making its round trip.

Now take a large snow flake prop like the GE XLS450.  It's center is three nested stars. Each layer of the star has its own motion effect rows.  They are defined as custom motion effect rows.   When I apply this same motion effect as on a circle for the spinner, the chase does not happen.   The effect only pans across it with the settings controlling the pan.  

I'm thinking/assuming the different effects are from how it was defined (custom vs rectangle).

How do I program (or set up a motion effect row) to have a two color effect chase around the prop (ie one of my nested stars), just like what happens on the spinner.  

Went through all the motion effects and knobs associated with them and came up empty.

Any thoughts or suggestions.  Thanks Jim Cammarata

[Box on Rails]

You may have to split the Flake prop into 2 custom props to get what you want. 1 prop has the center stars as a spinner and the other prop has the spokes. Each prop will have it's own Motion effects rows however you set them up. Then you can create a prop Group with both props. you can now create Motion effects rows for the entire group. I have had to do this to some of the prop Definitions I have down loaded from GE. 

[Red Lily Way Christmas]

Kenny,

I've tried your suggestions.  I must not understand how to define the circuits in each prop so that they work together and match the wiring diagram of the prop.  Pretty much figured out that this chasing singleblock effect only works for rectangle defined motion rows.    When I create a nested star that is what I get . . . rectangle rows with one for each star.  When you chase that with a singleblock effect it creates a really cool chase sequence around the star.    Just want to be able to do that in the center star of the GE XLS450 flake.  Appreciated your response.  If there is anything else you can add that may help get this to work, please share.  Thanks Jim

[gsmith37064]

@Red Lily Way ChristmasI sent you a PM about your spinner.

Also I see you are a fellow systems engineer.

How long have you been in the field for? Pushing 25 years myself.

[Box on Rails]

9 hours ago, Red Lily Way Christmas said:

Kenny,

I've tried your suggestions.  I must not understand how to define the circuits in each prop so that they work together and match the wiring diagram of the prop.  Pretty much figured out that this chasing singleblock effect only works for rectangle defined motion rows.    When I create a nested star that is what I get . . . rectangle rows with one for each star.  When you chase that with a singleblock effect it creates a really cool chase sequence around the star.    Just want to be able to do that in the center star of the GE XLS450 flake.  Appreciated your response.  If there is anything else you can add that may help get this to work, please share.  Thanks Jim

I can't really explain it here without probably creating more questions. I'll download this prop definition from GE and try to split the prop and show you the end result. more tp come soon.

[gsmith37064]

4 hours ago, Box on Rails said:

I can't really explain it here without probably creating more questions. I'll download this prop definition from GE and try to split the prop and show you the end result. more tp come soon.

The prop is built for 1 universe per the custom prop designer. It will need to be broken down to multiple universes.

I am working on getting a remote sessions with Jim and will show him how to define the universes in the custom prop designer. Once that is corrected, the motion rows should start to work. Worst case, delete the predefined ones and rebuild your own. But we are not that far along to see if that is the case.

[Box on Rails]

20 hours ago, gsmith37064 said:

The prop is built for 1 universe per the custom prop designer. It will need to be broken down to multiple universes.

I am working on getting a remote sessions with Jim and will show him how to define the universes in the custom prop designer. Once that is corrected, the motion rows should start to work. Worst case, delete the predefined ones and rebuild your own. But we are not that far along to see if that is the case.

I was able to spend a little time with this prop and it is very complex. It has 100 Motion effects rows I think 98 of them are custom rows. It would seem with this many rows there should be at least one that can be used for what Jim is trying to do. I use LOR networks so I'm gonna keep playing with this prop and see what I come up with for 170 pixels strings. 

[gsmith37064]

2 hours ago, Box on Rails said:

I was able to spend a little time with this prop and it is very complex. It has 100 Motion effects rows I think 98 of them are custom rows. It would seem with this many rows there should be at least one that can be used for what Jim is trying to do. I use LOR networks so I'm gonna keep playing with this prop and see what I come up with for 170 pixels strings. 

Hey Kenny,

Where are you coming up 170 pixels? Is this the amount of nodes you can run off 1 universe?

This is what I count:

Outer star ring - 60 nodes
Middle star ring - 48 nodes
Inner star ring 36 nodes

Outer blade - 35 nodes
Inner blade - 16 nodes
===========================
51 Nodes per blade

Total Blades - 6 for 306 nodes

Total overall nodes - 450

 

I am wondering if it would be easier to build if it's broken down into 7 props, and then added to a group? I have redone the first blade but keep losing count as the custom prop screen is way to large and requires a ton of scrolling. I think a 4k monitor would come in handy right about now. I might have to upgrade. :)

 

Keep in mind that the way it's numbered right now, it's all 1 universe.

[Jimehc]

LOR supports 170 Nodes or 510 channels on a Universe on a Pixie - it shows the rest of the 450 pixels as "Carryover"

Thus we renumber the Pixels in the Custom Layout to show as separate strings or Universes

[gsmith37064]

54 minutes ago, Jimehc said:

LOR supports 170 Nodes or 510 channels on a Universe on a Pixie - it shows the rest of the 450 pixels as "Carryover"

Thus we renumber the Pixels in the Custom Layout to show as separate strings or Universes

Did you actually get them renumbered correctly?

[Jimehc]

Yes, on other Props.... First String > 1-999 -- Second String > 1001-1999 -- Third String > 2001-2999 -- Fourth String > 3001-3999

Now I know you will not be using 999 pixels per port - but for each separate Sting you need to go up 1000 in your count

So you can count to 50/100/150 then start next string count with 1001

I will note that keeping the # of Pixel rather even - Keeps the Brightness of the Pixels even across the prop...

Testing shows with 50 Pixels per Port = 100% Brightness  - 100 Pixel per port is about 82% Brightness - 150 per Port is about 65% Brightness (Basically about a 20% per pixel wattage Decrease per additional 50 Pixel String)

Edited February 6, 2022 by Jimehc

[gsmith37064]

4 hours ago, Jimehc said:

Yes, on other Props.... First String > 1-999 -- Second String > 1001-1999 -- Third String > 2001-2999 -- Fourth String > 3001-3999

Now I know you will not be using 999 pixels per port - but for each separate Sting you need to go up 1000 in your count

So you can count to 50/100/150 then start next string count with 1001

I will note that keeping the # of Pixel rather even - Keeps the Brightness of the Pixels even across the prop...

Testing shows with 50 Pixels per Port = 100% Brightness  - 100 Pixel per port is about 82% Brightness - 150 per Port is about 65% Brightness (Basically about a 20% per pixel wattage Decrease per additional 50 Pixel String)

Can you send us the prop? I got tired of scrolling and trying to get it numbered correctly. Did you keep it as one prop or did you break it down to multiple props?

[Box on Rails]

21 hours ago, gsmith37064 said:

Hey Kenny,

Where are you coming up 170 pixels? Is this the amount of nodes you can run off 1 universe?

This is what I count:

Outer star ring - 60 nodes
Middle star ring - 48 nodes
Inner star ring 36 nodes

Outer blade - 35 nodes
Inner blade - 16 nodes
===========================
51 Nodes per blade

Total Blades - 6 for 306 nodes

Total overall nodes - 450

 

I am wondering if it would be easier to build if it's broken down into 7 props, and then added to a group? I have redone the first blade but keep losing count as the custom prop screen is way to large and requires a ton of scrolling. I think a 4k monitor would come in handy right about now. I might have to upgrade. :)

 

Keep in mind that the way it's numbered right now, it's all 1 universe.

I am not using DMX universes so I have no knowledge of how that works. I am using the LOR standard Universe that allows only 170 Pixels max per string.  The carry over feature auto assigns and pixels in excess of 170 (510 Circuits) to the next controller ID. For me, rather then using the carry over feature to automatically assign unit IDs, I create props that I assign each Unit ID per string and limit all my strings to no more the 150. This gives me more control over the power in each string and eliminated the need for power injection. to answer your last question, I would break it down into multiple sub props and here is why. When I down loaded the prop from GE it had 100 Motion effects rows and as a stand alone prop that works great but lets say you want to included this prop in an entire display group. in that group you chose a Motion effect that you want the entire display to play but in that large snowflake you only want the inner stars to be used. you can't do it in the entire display group unless you split the prop into sub groups. none of the 100 Motion effects are active inside the entire display group. so when you create multiple sub props it gives you the flexibility to only use the portion of lager prop in larger groups. in my case I use 7 singing elements and each prop is broken up onto 3 sub props. the outline, eyes and mouths. the reason for this is for adding the singing elements to the entire display group. if I added the singing element as a single prop all of the mouth positions would light up in the entire display group, I am only wanting to have the outline of the singing element in the display group, so in my entire display group I add all 7 singing prop outlines and do not include the eyes and mouths. I could not do this without creating 3 separate props for each face. this is a little far of from what you first asked but it is all tied together in the fact that for you to get what you want to a specific portion of your prop you might have to split it up. then again there might be a better way that I have yet to find. This has just been my experience. 

[Jimehc]

14 hours ago, gsmith37064 said:

Can you send us the prop? I got tired of scrolling and trying to get it numbered correctly. Did you keep it as one prop or did you break it down to multiple props?

GE XLS 450 1.lpeprop

[gsmith37064]

2 hours ago, Jimehc said:

GE XLS 450 1.lpeprop

Thanks. You have it broken in to 3 universes which is much better than the 1 that comes with it.

Some of the built in motion rows are great, yet others are just redundant.

I am thinking about replacing my custom spinner as I like this one. I just need to play around with it a little more before I make the jump.

Thanks to the OP for posting about it.

Edited February 7, 2022 by gsmith37064

[Jimehc]

Like I said you have to renumber the pixels - to show as separate strings

[gsmith37064]

3 minutes ago, Jimehc said:

Like I said you have to renumber the pixels - to show as separate strings

Yes I already aware of that. The biggest issue is having to scroll through the custom prop screen to place your nodes. You have to make it large enough to see the numbers. I wish there was a way to blow up just a section of it. Or maybe change the colors of each universe. That alone would help out a ton. This is why I am thinking about getting a 4k monitor. Maybe then I can see a lot more of the screen. I am glad you managed to break it down to 3 universes. I will continue to break it down a little more.

[Jimehc]

3 strings of 150 of goes into it evenly - if you go strings of 100 - then you have 4 strings of 100 & a string of 50

[Red Lily Way Christmas]

Thanks for all the input, a lot to digest.  I did find this in the LOR online doc on advanced shapes.   I took a smaller prop like the one below and did this and it seems to work as described.  Doing this for the XLS-450 is a bit more work as the actual pixel number locations will need to be placed in the buffer layout grid in the correct row/column and then you would have to drag each pixel in your preview canvas to get the shape you want it to look like.  For those reasons  I haven't attempted that.   But you do end up with the rectangle grid view for the motion effect rows that allow this prop to behave like a spinner would.

Advanced Shape

 

With an advanced shape you can move each individual pixel as needed by dragging them on the design canvas. When moving pixels you should enable the display of pixel numbers so you know which pixel you are moving.

 

You can also change how the pixels are arranged in the effects buffer by clicking the "Edit Advanced Buffer Layout" button. As the name implies, this is is an advanced function, but can be used to create pixel props that cannot be represented by other shapes.

 

In the next picture, a preview has been created with a background image of a snowflake. The pixels have been arranged (with pixel numbers showing) to match how the prop is wired.

 

Snowflake prop with pixel numbers shown

 

Next, the buffer layout for the snowflake is defined such that each arm of the snowflake is 4 columns in the grid. Each number in the layout grid corresponds to the pixel number shown above. For help in using the buffer layout grid, see the Custom Shape Light Placement grid topic (it works the same way). With this buffer layout, motion effects that move left or right will go around the snowflake. Motion effects that move up will expand from the center, and effects the move down will go from the outside of the snowflake inward.

 

The buffer layout for the snowflake

 

This preview contains just one prop; but this prop would be one of many in someone's display. So the final step would be to export this prop from this preview, and then import it into the preview containing the full display.