Box on Rails Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 This is a little long but hopefully a software specialist will get what's going on here. I think I may have found a bug with editing a preview in SE. Specifically it affects Custom Motion effects rows. Here’s what I got going on. I have created a Singing Pumpkin in SE that is broken down into 3 props to make up the one physical show prop. I have created all 3 props with the Custom prop builder. Prop 1 is the Pumpkin Outline with no Motion effects. Prop 2 is the eyes and nose with 2 motion effects. Prop 3 is the mouth prop with 10 custom rows for the mouth movements. This is what changed: Prop 1 was the outline with 50 pixels unit 01. Circuit 1 to 150 Prop 2 was eyes and nose with 48 pixels using unit 02. circuit 1 to 144. Prop 3 was mouths with 69 Pixels also using unit 02. circuit 145 to 351. This set up worked good in the SE but when I finally started wiring up the prop I need to change things around a bit. I had to add the Eyes and nose prop to the unit used by the outline Prop Unit 01. Now only the Mouth props would be on unit 02 using circuits 1 to 207 Instead of circuits 145 to 351. As you can see this caused a shift in the mouth prop numbering. This was not an issue other then I had to delete all of the 13 Motion effects rows and create complete new ones to match up with the changes I made in the renumbering of the Pixels. So after making the new custom ME rows, I saved the Preview. Then I went into a Sequence that used the old preview and loaded it up. Next I started adding mouth movement clipboards that I created in Papagayo using BobO’s conversion program and everything was fine until play back. I had a mess of lights coming on that was way off. So I went in and checked the custom ME rows to make sure the correct pixels were highlighted and something was wrong. What had happen was the new ME row I created with the edited props was somehow still tied to the old prop numbering Units 145 to 351. the only pixels that would light up at all during playback where the pixels using circuits 145 to 207 which were the overlapping circuits between the edits. It was a mess. So the next thing I did was copied the Preview and named it something else. Then in the sequence changed the sequence preview to the new copied preview and I still had that same problem. Next thing I did was create an all new Sequence with the first preview with my prop edits. This had all of the correct Custom Motion effect rows and fixed the issue. But did it? I had to create a completely new sequence and this has me wondering if I am going to have to recreate all my sequences if I make changes to any Custom ME Row? I thought that any edit I make to a preview would update all songs with that preview once they are loaded back into the SE. I found this is not the case when it comes to Custom Motion effects rows. I have made many changes in the ME row while in a specific sequence and it does not update in the Preview it only changes in the preview of that particular Sequence. And vice versa. When I make changes in a Custom ME row in the Preview with no sequences open, all saved sequences don’t reflect the change after I open them in SE. I have to make these changes manually in each sequence. It seems to be only happening when editing Custom Motion Effects Rows. Is this Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 If all you did was change the channel assignments, you should not have had to make any sequencing changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Captain obvious here but this is why when creating custom props you need to at least know where you want to place the nodes and not deviate. If you saw the backs of some of my props - pre Light population- they look like carp because I use a pencil to ensure I know exactly where I want each node and then once I am done I go over it with a sharpie. With some of my singers or animated props having around 700 nodes and many bunched up it’s a must. Before populating I take a picture of my “poly lines” and import that pic into the custom node placement. Even when I have to break them up and group once complete that is what I do. You can save the grid view and import the grid view for each sequence once you are happy. If you used the LCC in S4 it works the same however it’s not a default setting. I wish it could be a default to always link the preview and grid view with new sequences some day. JR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 14 hours ago, k6ccc said: If all you did was change the channel assignments, you should not have had to make any sequencing changes. That's what I thought. Fortunately for me I am Trying to make all my prop changes and additions before making the Final sequences. I have been making specific prop previews for bench testing the physical prop before I add them to the main show preview. I guessing by July I should have all the new props and pixels put together and ready for storage. LOL. Once I know all the Motion effects for each prop work as intended, the all New sequencing for 2022 will begin. I hoping I will get a response on this for one of the software admin guys. Kenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasLights Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 not specific to what you are asking, but when I was first playing with props like this, I did the same thing that you did, but then I swapped it around. Now I do a single prop and carve out motion effect rows for the subsections. It give a lot more flexibility as you can even combine them in any pattern you want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 On 1/29/2022 at 7:21 AM, TexasLights said: not specific to what you are asking, but when I was first playing with props like this, I did the same thing that you did, but then I swapped it around. Now I do a single prop and carve out motion effect rows for the subsections. It give a lot more flexibility as you can even combine them in any pattern you want This is exactly what I did. but when I make edits to Motion effects rows in a sequence (not using the preview tab) when the sequence is open these changes do not carry over to the master preview. any changes I make to a preview in a sequence should effect the master preview. with this in mind when I open a previously saved sequence as it is loading the edits to the motion effects should change in this sequence and this is not the case for Custom Motion effects. It only happens with Custom Motion Effects. with Regular Motion Effects there is no Issue. In the upcoming weeks I'll try to put a video together showing what is going on. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 If you add ME to the Prop via the Sequencer - it is only in that sequence - not the Master If you change the ME in the Preview - when you open Sequence - you have to add Motion Effect - Merge Defaults - as the changes do not just merge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 22 hours ago, Jimehc said: If you add ME to the Prop via the Sequencer - it is only in that sequence - not the Master If you change the ME in the Preview - when you open Sequence - you have to add Motion Effect - Merge Defaults - as the changes do not just merge So what you are saying is that any edit I do to a Custom motion effect row will not be changed in anything other then the preview or sequence I am working in. For the changes to apply to any other previously saved sequence that is using that preview, I will have to create an entirely new sequence with the new edited preview. Then open a previously saved sequence with the unedited preview in SE. Then copy and paste all the channels from the old sequence to the new sequence for changes to be added. Seems like there could be a better way but Okay. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Box on Rails said: So what you are saying is that any edit I do to a Custom motion effect row will not be changed in anything other then the preview or sequence I am working in. For the changes to apply to any other previously saved sequence that is using that preview, I will have to create an entirely new sequence with the new edited preview. Then open a previously saved sequence with the unedited preview in SE. Then copy and paste all the channels from the old sequence to the new sequence for changes to be added. Seems like there could be a better way but Okay. Thanks Create the prop the way you like in the Preview. Add the prop to the Grid View. Export the Grid View Each time you sequence Import the Grid View with the Preview. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMassey Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Create a custom grid view for your first sequence. Make all the changes to that grid and export it. When you start a new sequence or update an older one, import the grid and assign the preview. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted February 1, 2022 Author Share Posted February 1, 2022 I'll try it but I'm not sure I understand how the grid view has anything to do with Custom Motion effect row in the prop definition. I play with this and see what happens. Thanks Guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 If you add a Motion Effect to a Prop - by selecting the Prop - in Sequencer - then ONLY that sequence will use that New Motion Effect..... To add across ALL sequences - you have to do it in the Previews Prop Definition - then merge into each sequence using that Prop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMassey Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Custom ME rows in a custom Grid View, will be saved with the exported grid. All of my motion rows are added to a custom grid and exported. Whenever I start a new sequence, all I have to do is assign the preview and import the grid. All my 60 odd sequences have exactly the same config. Items in the system generated Show All grid group are not saved with the export process. If you want full controll of your grid, you must create custom views 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibblejr Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, PhilMassey said: Custom ME rows in a custom Grid View, will be saved with the exported grid. All of my motion rows are added to a custom grid and exported. Whenever I start a new sequence, all I have to do is assign the preview and import the grid. All my 60 odd sequences have exactly the same config. Items in the system generated Show All grid group are not saved with the export process. If you want full controll of your grid, you must create custom views /\ /\ /\ - Is the answer from the person who helped me with the exact same problem when I finally settle down and got in the nitty gritty of S5. Listen to Phil on this one. JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box on Rails Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice. Here is what I did. I started making a video showing what is going on and in the attempt to explain the issue I found the solution using all of your advice. the bottom line was I was splitting one custom prop into 2 custom props by creating a copy and removing the pixels in each copy to create separate props. So after all the editing I exported the grid View. then I created a new sequence with the same preview. then I imported the grid view and that worked as you all pointed out. So I guess this is not a bug in S5 but shouldn't any edit to the preview whether in a sequence or not change the master preview. I kind of was thinking it should. that way when you open up a previously saved sequence with that preview you should get the message stating the preview has changed, then as is already the case, you can decide to apply the change or create a new preview with out the changes. But I digress. Thanks again all. I know what to do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimehc Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 (edited) If you add Motion effect rows via the sequence grid - it does not effect the Master Preview......... If you edit a Master Preview Prop with new Motion Effect Rows - they do not import automatically when opening an existing sequence..... They will be present if you Create a New Sequence.... If open an existing Sequence - then you have to select the Prop in Grid view - add Motion Effect Row - Then hit "Merge Defaults" Button > to import the default ME rows... Edited February 3, 2022 by Jimehc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now