mjxnjx Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Hi All, Its 3 days before the big Halloween weekend show and one of my controllers will no longer power up. 🤕 It's a CTB16PC V2 so it has a red LED that normally turns on when plugged in. It's not doing anything at all. I disconnected the controller from all lights and plugged it in alone to another location that I know has power and still nothing. I tried resetting it using the jumper - still nothing. I inspected the cables and the board itself - nothing looks burned or unusual. I tried swapping the fuses (thinking maybe fuse 9-16 was out since I understand that one also controls the board) - still nothing. It was working fine all last weekend! Only possibility I can think of it maybe both fuses are out? Where can I get replacement fuses in a hurry so I can try that? I can't find any details about what fuses these boards take. If it's not the fuses, what else could it possibly be? Thanks for any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k6ccc Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 35 minutes ago, mjxnjx said: Where can I get replacement fuses in a hurry so I can try that? In a pinch, almost any home improvement store. Or Amazon. Measure with your voltmeter before just replacing fuses.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 10 hours ago, mjxnjx said: Hi All, Its 3 days before the big Halloween weekend show and one of my controllers will no longer power up. 🤕 It's a CTB16PC V2 so it has a red LED that normally turns on when plugged in. It's not doing anything at all. I disconnected the controller from all lights and plugged it in alone to another location that I know has power and still nothing. I tried resetting it using the jumper - still nothing. I inspected the cables and the board itself - nothing looks burned or unusual. I tried swapping the fuses (thinking maybe fuse 9-16 was out since I understand that one also controls the board) - still nothing. It was working fine all last weekend! Only possibility I can think of it maybe both fuses are out? Where can I get replacement fuses in a hurry so I can try that? I can't find any details about what fuses these boards take. If it's not the fuses, what else could it possibly be? Thanks for any help.  Most Home Improvement stores carry these 15A ceramic fast acting fuses, most will be labeled for microwave use, but they are the same fuse, as long as the ratings are identical to what you're looking for. Always take a fuse with you to the store, they can usually match them up to what you need. However, they tend to cost a LOT more than if you bought them directly from LOR. Here's where to buy them from LOR {4.99/12Pack}: 12 Pack - Fuses 15A Fast Acting Ceramic Most times you'll get these within a few days, but in a hurry, Home Depot and other stores like them have them, but it may cost you that price just for ONE fuse. I know I purchased two in a pinch for the same reason you have, controller up and died, tested with meter in continuity mode, both were blown, cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $13-$14 including sales tax for 2 fuses. So after that lesson, went to the link above and bought a 12 pack from LOR to have on hand for the next fuse failure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Do NOT use 32V Automotive fuses on AC power circuits. They are designed for low voltage and can flash over instead of melting. If you are all LED on a bank, you can use a slightly smaller AMP range. To bad Fry's is gone (if the had stock). First Radio Shack bit the dust, and now Frys is belly up. As a test, just move the other fuse to that bank to see if the unit power on (you might blow that fuse, but then, it proves repairs are needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 As far as I know all CTB16PC controllers use the same fuse as I posted the link to from LOR above. 15AMP Fast Acting Ceramic Fuses. And as far as I recall they are rated at 250V, mainly because, I believe all the CTB16PC controllers can be used with 120VAC or 240VAC.  And as The Ducks said, NEVER use any type of automotive fuse, that's a disaster min the making. However, in a real pinch, I did use a 250V 15AMP glass fuse, it wasn't a fast acting fuse, nor was it a SLO-BLO fuse, NEVER USE A SLO-BLO FUSE IN ANY CONTROLLERS!  But the fuse I used helped me diagnose that the fuses were the issue, as it did power up my controller, and they worked for a couple of days while I looked for the correct fuses. As soon as I found and got the same fuses that were there in the first place, the "temp" fuses I used got replaced immediately. I'd never recommend leaving that type of fuse in your controllers for more than a couple of days temporary use, replace as soon as you get the correct fuses for your controller. I don't know how well the "temp" fuse I used would have held up long term, but I'd try not to utilize a temporary fuse like that for more than 2 days use.  But in a real pinch, one or two could be used for a very short-term fix.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjxnjx Posted October 28, 2021 Author Share Posted October 28, 2021 Appreciate everyone's help with this. Unfortunately I tested the original fuses with a multimeter and they appear to be fine. Just in case I went to Home Depot and bought two new 15 AMP Fast Acting Ceramic Fuses but after installing them it made no difference. I'm having an electrician friend of the family look at it tomorrow but I don't have a lot of hope. I don't understand what could have gone wrong as I take very good care of my controllers and never overload them. My show is pretty much ruined for this year. I keep backups of light bulbs, extension cords, mini light sets, etc, but never expected an entire controller to go out 3 days before the show with no way to fix it. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioguy1007 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I see most were suggesting blown fuse, but being it is an older V2, it may be a dead filter capacitor. They dry out with age. A sure sign you have a bad one is a bulge in the top of the metal can. It should be flat. But not always is that the case. Some voltage measurement on the board would help isolate the issue further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 If you know how to use a DVM, put it in AC mode and verify if you have 110vac at the power inputs to the board itself. Obviously be very careful or you can light yourself up instead of the board. Do you know how to test diodes? That's the next step. Also, pull the entire board out of it and look at the traces on the back side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjxnjx Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 Update: Electrician friend determined the center transformer had burned from underneath. You had to remove it to see the damage (not visible). A rush order was placed for a new one from DigiKey.com and arrives tonight (as well as the proper materials to go with it). We're going to solder it on tonight and cross our fingers as this is a last minute repair. Not sure what would have caused such damage but I assume it was related to the power outage we got from the storm Sunday night/Monday morning. The show was never turned on during or after the storm - we always inspect the connections for water first before turning on after a storm - but the controllers were still plugged in when the power went out. Maybe a power surge occurred when the electricity went out? You'd think it would have blown the fuses in the box first though... yet they seem to be fine. Weird. Anyway, crossing fingers for tonight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radioguy1007 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 A power surge could cause the output of the transformer to spike and take out one of the diodes converting the AC of the transformer to DC. As Mr. Grant above suggested, I second checking the diodes. A transformer feeding a direct short would toast the coils but not be enough to blow a 15 amp fuse. The power supply in a controller is live as long as it is plugged in.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjxnjx Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 I'm not an electrician (still learning) so forgive my ignorance. Am I thinking correctly that this may have been prevented had the unit been plugged into a surge protector? It's in a dedicated GFCI outlet but i'm thinking that only handles feedback coming from the other direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDucks Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 58 minutes ago, mjxnjx said: I'm not an electrician (still learning) so forgive my ignorance. Am I thinking correctly that this may have been prevented had the unit been plugged into a surge protector? It's in a dedicated GFCI outlet but i'm thinking that only handles feedback coming from the other direction. GFCI (RCBO in some place) measures the differential between the White and black (blue and Brown) and senses the imbalance. A surge from the Utility will still be balanced . A surge protector contains Breakdown devices to dump severe over voltages (phase to Phase,Phase to Ground). Depending on the nature (mode) of the surge, it may not trip the GFCI. It is not unusual for Breakdown devices to give their all (the reason for status lights on some designs) saving your stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orville Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 hours ago, mjxnjx said: I'm not an electrician (still learning) so forgive my ignorance. Am I thinking correctly that this may have been prevented had the unit been plugged into a surge protector? It's in a dedicated GFCI outlet but i'm thinking that only handles feedback coming from the other direction. DO NOT COUNT ON SURGE PROTECTORS!  I have one installed inside my Power Meter by the electric company that covers my entire home. But a flickering power glitch took out my Pixie16, had a close lightning strike quite a few months back, no protection from that either, lost 3 CCB100 5V controllers and 2 strands of RGB Lights, NEVER tripped the GFCI, nor did it blow any fuses in those 3 CCB100 Controllers, but the boards were scorched and burned by the reset button, as well as both lighting Ports on the CCB100's, it was also on 2 of them, they were scorched at a few other areas, and melted some SMD components. All 3 had damage to BOTH sides of their PCB's. And these were dual protected with the Power Company Whole Home Surge Protector and other Surge Protectors used in front of the controllers.  I don't think a Surge protector is worth anything with lightning dancing around, but with a power glitch, quick off/on/pulsing of the AC power, I would think the Surge Protector{'s} would have prevented damages in that type of situation, but they didn't trip either! So I don't count on them for any kind of protection after that. Power Companies is still in the meter, but the rest I've removed, and probably won't ever use them again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgrant Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Its possible it took a lightning strike. I had a mega tree take a hit on a steel guide wire. Melted the wire but thankfully nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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