Better performance - S4 or S5?

[wbaker4]

Assuming a standard LOR network with 8 AC LOR controllers and several pixel controllers running on a network - unicast - controlling 3000 pixels.

Does S5 run smoother, or will there still be slowness/crashes that I have seen in S4 when running shows with lots of pixels?

I'm really hoping S5 works better.

Thanks in advance.

[k6ccc]

Confirming that your 3,000 pixels are running on E1.31 controllers (you said Unicast)?

What are you using as a show player?

Of hand, with only 3,000 pixels (assuming on E1,31), you should not be seeing any issues.  For what it's worth, I am running a little over 66K channels total with a little under 1,000 of those on ELOR networks and the rest on E1.31.  Not having any issues.

 

[wbaker4]

Yes E1.31.

Using LOR for running the shows.  You as well?

Running Dell - Inspiron 3880 Desktop - Intel Core i5-10400 - 12GB Memory.

I had to cut down a 3.5 minute sequence (lms file was 1.2GB) to a bit over 2 minutes (720MB) because it was randomly crashing.  I do have run compressed checked.

At that time I was running S4.  I have not used S5 yet to control a show - but planning to in another month.

[k6ccc]

Yes, I am running my Christmas show on LOR S5.  The show computer is a Dell desktop that is similar to what you have.  One MAJOR change.  Almost all of my sequencing is either done in SuperStar or as Motion Effects.  My .loredit files are between 10 and 20MB.  The only things I sequence in Sequencer (what you know of as Sequence Editor in S4) is some mostly static channels and the singing faces (which JR does for me).  The P5 and P10 matrix are done is Motion Effects, and EVERYTHING else is done is SuperStar.

 

[wbaker4]

Thanks for the information Jim.

Interesting your loredit files are 10 to 20MB.  What file type is all the pixel info being saved in?  My understanding is intensity files are only used for LOR networks.

The cutdown song using S5 is now about 600MB (vs 720MB with S4).

I am using E6804's and E682's.

I must be missing something!

[Jimehc]

A Pixel sequence at the Bulb Level will add a lot to the over all file size - Motion Effects add very little to the file size - keep in mind, SS adds an .avi file that is not included in the actual sequence, but is included in the show

[PhilMassey]

S5 can now access 64 bit memory, which means that the sequencer can handle much larger file sizes if required. As an experiment, I loaded 12 sequences totaling 11 GB into sequencer before Windows ran out of memory. (16GB machine) S4 would choke when windows reported much over 4 GB.

Some of my sequence files are greater than six minutes and two are over 10 minutes.

[Orville]

10 hours ago, wbaker4 said:

Assuming a standard LOR network with 8 AC LOR controllers and several pixel controllers running on a network - unicast - controlling 3000 pixels.

Does S5 run smoother, or will there still be slowness/crashes that I have seen in S4 when running shows with lots of pixels?

I'm really hoping S5 works better.

Thanks in advance.

I'm just now learning S5 {well back to it after Christmas}, but your license level shows Advanced, and that could be a possible issue in your S4 crashing. 

I see you are also using version 4.3.14, that may, or may not cause the slow-downs or other issues, I'd recommend using the latest version of S4: S4.4.16, as it fixed a few issues.  I really suggest upgrading your license to PRO as there are a few things using Pixels and Pixel Controllers that an Advanced license just can't do, like Enhanced networks, and Enhanced are needed for many RGB Controllers, especially Pixies. 

And if you do have a Pro license and using the latest S4 {for the time being ~ your 2021 Shows}, you should update your profile to reflect that, and remember to update it when you finally do change over to S5.

 

[wbaker4]

Thank you for the information Orville.

I am using 5.6.6 Advanced - I just updated my profile.  Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

I am confused about the enhanced network.    I thought that had to do with LOR controllers (pixie and pixcon16) and LOR networks vs E1.31 devices configured as unicast.

If Pro will give me a speed advantage with my configuration, I'll upgrade.  

What I am running now...

5 LOR controllers running on the low speed network

1 LOR controller running high speed (500K)

6 RGB controllers (E6804's and E682's) running across 27 universes - unicast E1.31.

[dibblejr]

If you are in S4 and have pixie controllers you must be running at least 4.4.0

Also Pro license is required if you have the pixie controllers and want them to run lights as expected, or at all

Enhanced (ELOR) is required to make you pixie controllers (if yiu have pixie series controllers to operate correctly)

You only get ELOR with a Pro license 

JR

Edited October 24, 2021 by dibblejr

[k6ccc]

2 hours ago, wbaker4 said:

I am confused about the enhanced network.    I thought that had to do with LOR controllers (pixie and pixcon16) and LOR networks vs E1.31 devices configured as unicast.

The E1.31 part of that has nothing to do with ELOR - so I'll get to that in a minute...

Enhanced LOR networking (or ELOR) allows more data to be sent over the same network speed.  In short, the way it does that is by preventing anything but the show player (computer or director) from sending data.  That allows the show player to continuously send data without needing to leave holes for other devices to send on the network.  Pixcon16 controllers (when operating on a LOR network) REQUIRE ELOR.  Pixie controllers may or may not depending on which part of the docs you read.  Resident Pixie expert JR states that Pixie controllers require ELOR.  Gen 3 AC controllers and DC controllers (with recent firmware) can operate on either a LOR or ELOR network.  Same thing with the original CCR / CCP / CCB controllers.  The original AC controllers can not be run on an ELOR network.  This chart gives a more detailed answer on network speed and capabilities for LOR controllers:  https://www1.lightorama.com/network-speeds/

In S5, if you are using Motion Effect (either from the Motion Effects Editor in Sequencer (what was Pixel Editor in S4) or from SuperStar), the channels used by the motion effects MUST be on controllers that are on ELOR networks.  Other channels in the sequence can be on a non-enhanced network.  Let's see if I remember my S4 terminology here...  In S4, if you are using Pixel Editor, it will always output data as Intensity files which MUST use ELOR to send to controllers.  If you are using SuperStar, you have the option of using Intensity files.  Last thing on ELOR networking - you MUST have a Pro level LOR software license to use ELOR or motion effects.

E1.31 is DMX over Ethernet.  Most large pixel controllers (other than Pixie) support E1.31 - or in most cases, that is all they support.  Because it is being carried over Ethernet, the speeds are much higher, but cable lengths are shorter.  You also can't daisy chain controllers unless the controllers involved have a built in network switch (some do).  E1.31 can be sent a unicast or multicast.  Unicast (labeled as "Specify" in the LOR Network Preferences) means that you tell the sending computer what the IP address of the controller is for each universe.  By comparison, Multicast means that the sending computer sends the data as a broadcast.  With one exception, if you are using a simple network (sending computer and several controllers all plugged into a single LAN switch, it does not make much difference from a networking standpoint.  The exception is that at least one manufacturer of E1.31 controllers allows more DMX universes to be used on a controller when using Unicast.  If your network is more involved - in particular if any portion is wireless - Unicast has a huge advantage in network performance.  If you really want more details on this, I can explain all those kinds of details for you.  You must have either an Advanced or Pro level LOR software license to use E1.31.

 

[dibblejr]

Pixie controllers need 500k and if you want to have the expected effects and results as sequence on the “enhanced” network. There is no way around that since Beta.

Without the enhanced network you “may” get lights to work. They may even appear to work correctly, or you may get no lights to work at all. Not worth the risk at show time.

Also DO NOT select 1000k for a NW speed for a pixie controller - unless- it is the only controller or controllers (all pixies) on the network.

That was a fairly new discovery for me. The NP still shows 1000k reserved for pixcon16’s only.

JR

[Orville]

19 hours ago, dibblejr said:

Pixie controllers need 500k and if you want to have the expected effects and results as sequence on the “enhanced” network. There is no way around that since Beta.

Without the enhanced network you “may” get lights to work. They may even appear to work correctly, or you may get no lights to work at all. Not worth the risk at show time.

Also DO NOT select 1000k for a NW speed for a pixie controller - unless- it is the only controller or controllers (all pixies) on the network.

That was a fairly new discovery for me. The NP still shows 1000k reserved for pixcon16’s only.

JR

On my N4-G4 Director, been using 1,000K speeds and enhanced for a couple of years now, Net2, Aux A is only 500K, enhanced as that only has CCB100D {9} controllers on it, Net3, Aux B, 1,000K, Enhanced are my Pixie2D's{2} for the LOR Singing Trees, and finally Net4 1,000K, enhanced is for the Pixie16D controller, which was added this year, but died on me.  BTW: I have the PCB out of the Pixie16D and ready to send to you as soon as I possibly can.  Just waiting on some funds to do so.

BTW: Regular network is 2 CTB16PC residential units {G1V2} set at 115K, NON-enhanced and one of those supplies power to the N4-G4 unit.   And everything runs fine with that set-up when all controllers are present and working.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Orville

[dibblejr]

4 hours ago, Orville said:

On my N4-G4 Director, been using 1,000K speeds and enhanced for a couple of years now, Net2, Aux A is only 500K, enhanced as that only has CCB100D {9} controllers on it, Net3, Aux B, 1,000K, Enhanced are my Pixie2D's{2} for the LOR Singing Trees, and finally Net4 1,000K, enhanced is for the Pixie16D controller, which was added this year, but died on me.  BTW: I have the PCB out of the Pixie16D and ready to send to you as soon as I possibly can.  Just waiting on some funds to do so.

BTW: Regular network is 2 CTB16PC residential units {G1V2} set at 115K, NON-enhanced and one of those supplies power to the N4-G4 unit.   And everything runs fine with that set-up when all controllers are present and working.

The key to your settings, only pixies on the 1000K nw's. If you add any other controllers you will get bad results. The LOR trees are pixie2's.

Just send when you can.

JR

[Vince4xmas]

My G4-MP3 Director runs one Pixcon16 at 1,000K, another Pixcon16 at 1,000K, another at 500K (Pixies and dumb rgb controllers) and the last at 500K (gen3 ac controllers.