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Papagayo >LOR problem


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Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post,  but I cant find anything about Papagayo here even though "It's me Bob website"  says to post any questions to LOR Forums.

We were going to take the plunge and use S5 this year, but with builds and all, we feel we do not have enough time to go through the learning process this year. 
We wanted to do some singing faces (we had a request for  "Frosty the snowman"  and "Santas' back in Town by Kurt Russell (never knew he did it until we discovered Christmas Chronicles}  and after surfing the net, we  discovered Papagayo. 
we've used ver 1.2 as the later versions, on our computer, will not allow the  selection  between different "Voices"   ie voice 1, voice 2
We have created our Papagayo file and saved the Dat files for "Santa's back"  - main singer and back up singers.  - The mouth movements in Papagayo  are in sync (as best we can get for first time users)  with the music - MP3 constant 128 bit as required for SE
We opened these voice files in translator for LOR (yes we watched the video on the correct numbering of the mouths) and exported the file to LOR clipboard.   The clipboard is then pasted into my Singing tree sequence.
When played back in SE, only the first few words are in sync with the voice.  There appears to be a time shift, which gets worse as the song progresses.  We have tried "Pasting" into the sequence with all different timings but nothing works. 
Some of the mouth movements for the back up singers also look totally wrong - but that might be due to the timing ? 
We have tried skewing the track, but that adjusts everything at the same time and is a total failure. 

What (if anything) are we doing wrong? 
Is there an easy way to realign the mouths?   We don't want to abandon our effort after putting in so much time with Papagayo, but we are at the end of out tether. 
We are unsure if the problem is with Translator or Pasting into SE  and have attached our Papagayo pgo file, Voice dat files,  and the  LOR lcb files If another Papagayo user wants to check out to see if they have the same problem 


Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks

Krissy Lights
 

Santas back Back Main Singer.dat Santas back Back up Singers.dat Santas back.pgo santas back in town_kurt.lcb Santas back up singers.lcb

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37 minutes ago, KrissyLights said:

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post,  but I cant find anything about Papagayo here even though "It's me Bob website"  says to post any questions to LOR Forums.

Actually none of Bob's tool's have any connection to LOR so there will be no response from them on Papagayo. It does say that at the top of the page JR linked above.

Individual members may help here and Bob may chime in. Don't do faces myself.

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6 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

It’s all right here where I posted last night or earlier today.

http://itsmebob.com/SD.html

Thank you JR. 
First thing that slapped me in the face when I visited the site...... Papagayo must be 25 fps.     Opened our PGO file - All done at 24 fps.... Sigh. 
Lets hope that's the problem that caused SE syncing problems. 
 

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You can only do 1 voice at a time in Papagayo.

Papagayo is not perfect. You will have to adjust stuff and clean the sequence all of the time.

If you want to learn more than what we help file teaches go to the developers website. If he is still hosting it he is a very nice guy. He actually sent me an updated pgo Bible at one time and was surprised that we use papagayo for singing faces. It was developed for slower speaking like Family Guy etc.

You are using an older version you may want to get a newer version from Bobs site.

ItsMeBob may jump in here and tell you which is best. He is the pgo guru. I haven’t used it since February 2017

Best to put some headphones on, start a new sequence and copy paste what yiu have in to the new or cut and paste or shift what yiu have in your current sequence.

Papagayo is good to start with but for me it left a lot off the table and I learned to sequence faces as I do everything, manually.

And as my friend Phil mentions, not an LOR software and LOR will not help you with this.

 

JR

 

Edited by dibblejr
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Just now, dibblejr said:

 

 

One more note

If it’s not Bobs online tutorial or the one that I did at one time, do not waste time on others.

There are some that claimed things worked but never would that was my downfall when I started trying to learn faces in the beginning before joining these forums. 
 

Best of luck in your sequencing adventure.

JR

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2 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

You can only do 1 voice at a time in Papagayo.

Papagayo is not perfect. You will have to adjust stuff and clean the sequence all of the time.

If you want to learn more than what we help file teaches go to the developers website. If he is still hosting it he is a very nice guy. He actually sent me an updated pgo Bible at one time and was surprised that we use papagayo for singing faces. It was developed for slower speaking like Family Guy etc.

You are using an older version you may want to get a newer version from Bobs site.

ItsMeBob may jump in here and tell you which is best. He is the pgo guru. I haven’t used it since February 2017

Best to put some headphones on, start a new sequence and copy paste what yiu have in to the new or cut and paste or shift what yiu have in your current sequence.

Papagayo is good to start with but for me it left a lot off the table and I learned to sequence faces as I do everything, manually.

And as my friend Phil mentions, not an LOR software and LOR will not help you with this.

 

JR

 

Thank you again. 
I used Papagayo 1.2 as It lets us choose between as many voices as we want.  I thought there was a problem with  Papagayo Mod 1.5.3b  but knowing it only allows 1 voice at a time makes sense as each voice is saved separately anyway.  
The latest version is now loaded and we'll start again. 
We have been watching his video's  and learnt quite a bit already. 
We have considered doing the cut and paste, but for now, we will try the latest version at 25 fps as it should have been and see if it sync better. 
Hubby tried doing the faces direct into SE and threw his hands up in the air and said I give up. I have no idea what I am doing.
I just showed him some of the face sequences you posted to a guy about setting up singing face props in S5. and he just shook his head..... Then he saw your Circles ......  
We certainly appreciate the help/info you and other members have given me on this, especially when its not really LOR related. 

 

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5 minutes ago, KrissyLights said:

Thank you again. 
I used Papagayo 1.2 as It lets us choose between as many voices as we want.  I thought there was a problem with  Papagayo Mod 1.5.3b  but knowing it only allows 1 voice at a time makes sense as each voice is saved separately anyway.  
The latest version is now loaded and we'll start again. 
We have been watching his video's  and learnt quite a bit already. 
We have considered doing the cut and paste, but for now, we will try the latest version at 25 fps as it should have been and see if it sync better. 
Hubby tried doing the faces direct into SE and threw his hands up in the air and said I give up. I have no idea what I am doing.
I just showed him some of the face sequences you posted to a guy about setting up singing face props in S5. and he just shook his head..... Then he saw your Circles ......  
We certainly appreciate the help/info you and other members have given me on this, especially when its not really LOR related. 

 

I have a video from the Virtual Christmas Summit that teaches the basics of how to do it manually.

I have other videos on YouTube on the subject as well.

I did host a weekly zoom class but due to medical reasons have not been able to start them Back up in 2021 and may not until 2022. Only God knows.

Feel free to ask any questions though. I’m a little ancient on pgo but may possibly answer some questions or teach new techniques.

You are very welcome.

My great friend and singing papagayo face mentor ItsMeBob is the man and a great resource / the only trusted resource I would  use

People come from other states to see my faces, draws them however they get mesmerized by the circles LOL

JR

Edited by dibblejr
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2 hours ago, dibblejr said:

People come from other states to see my faces, draws them however they get mesmerized by the circles LOL

How so very true...I was just now literally mesmerized by them in your Christmas Canon video.  Awesome job!

As for using papagayo, I heeded the advice of JR and others and do my faces manually as well.  Given that most songs are repetitive at some point (like the "chorus"), it is not as bad as it seems.  I always start off doing the "biggest bang for the buck" sections first, like the choruses, cut and paste them through the song, minor tweaks as necessary, then start filling in the other sections, parts and singers.  This also helps me think about how I want other props to act during specific parts.

Since I use both dumb LED and smart pixel singing props, I find it faster to do all my mouth movements on the dumb LED props and then cut/paste them to the smart pixel props.  This way you do not get lengthy periods of the spinning wheel while the program updates the smart pixel sequences.  I do have to go back and fix the pixel colors, since they inherit the color of the dumb LED when I cut/paste them, but this is easy to do.

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Sorry I have been away from the forums for a bit.  There is so much to say about papagayo.  Who ever said papagayo can only do one voice!   It can do unlimited voices in the same file

I think Papagayo is MUCH easier than trying to do it by hand!   That is just crazy and my friend JR is crazy plus two to try and convince people to think otherwise! (You know I love you babe!)   Being able to tweek the papagayo is a plus for sure and not a minus.  Please think of papagayo sort of like superstar in that the effects are stored in another file and you generate the sequence.  SO you can go back to the papagayo and adjust it and then rebuild it.   This has GOT to be easier than listening and tweaking the channels!  

I have used all the versions and still swap back and forth on occasion.    The how to videos are very old and so am I,  I mean so is papagayo.   There is some good news for next year because papagayo has been rewritten to have more features including auto word detection in the media!    Please PM me if you have a particular problem or if you want some free tutoring.   

My most fervent and important and critical advice that you cant miss is to CONFIRM by looking in the file that you are 100% certain you are using 25FPS   

And that you get EVERY SINGLE sound or word written down before you start sliding anything.   That means every   oh   hmm   whap and sound you want a mouth movement for.  You really should listen multiple times to get them all for sure. Then you hit the button. 

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I failed to mention that papagayo creates 10 mouth shapes.    For me this is required since I use a pixel panel which displays all 10 phonemes.   There have been times I really wanted to use some of JRs fantastic work but my props just cant display the five.    The papagayo to LOR program is where the 10 get reduced to 5.  There is definitely some art to this because some props will look better with the top and middle paired and others with the middle and bottom paired.   Also your prop may have a very low bottom lip so you may want to assign the rest to the middle lip or even the top instead of the bottom.  

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18 minutes ago, ItsMeBobO said:

Sorry I have been away from the forums for a bit.  There is so much to say about papagayo.  Who ever said papagayo can only do one voice!   It can do unlimited voices in the same file

I think Papagayo is MUCH easier than trying to do it by hand!   That is just crazy and my friend JR is crazy plus two to try and convince people to think otherwise! (You know I love you babe!)   Being able to tweek the papagayo is a plus for sure and not a minus.  Please think of papagayo sort of like superstar in that the effects are stored in another file and you generate the sequence.  SO you can go back to the papagayo and adjust it and then rebuild it.   This has GOT to be easier than listening and tweaking the channels!  

I have used all the versions and still swap back and forth on occasion.    The how to videos are very old and so am I,  I mean so is papagayo.   There is some good news for next year because papagayo has been rewritten to have more features including auto word detection in the media!    Please PM me if you have a particular problem or if you want some free tutoring.   

My most fervent and important and critical advice that you cant miss is to CONFIRM by looking in the file that you are 100% certain you are using 25FPS   

And that you get EVERY SINGLE sound or word written down before you start sliding anything.   That means every   oh   hmm   whap and sound you want a mouth movement for.  You really should listen multiple times to get them all for sure. Then you hit the button. 

I’m guilty my friend But I did note that , that’s all we could do when I used it.

As far as speed, I could never sequence the way I do now with papagayo.

I know I may be the exception but you know that’s how I do it.

Now I haven’t been able to sequence anything but hopefully soon I will be back.

Looking like I will be dark this year. I did help a guy with his controllers last week in Indiana ans believe it or not he said he would drive down and set my shows up.

Of course I wouldn’t let him but there is a lot of generosity here in the LOR world.

You included.

Love you right back my friend.

Prayers to you and your family. We are home schooling this year. I won’t call him names but our city School Super need help.

JR

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12 minutes ago, dibblejr said:

I’m guilty my friend But I did note that , that’s all we could do when I used it.

As far as speed, I could never sequence the way I do now with papagayo.

I know I may be the exception but you know that’s how I do it.

Now I haven’t been able to sequence anything but hopefully soon I will be back.

Looking like I will be dark this year. I did help a guy with his controllers last week in Indiana ans believe it or not he said he would drive down and set my shows up.

Of course I wouldn’t let him but there is a lot of generosity here in the LOR world.

You included.

Love you right back my friend.

Prayers to you and your family. We are home schooling this year. I won’t call him names but our city School Super need help.

JR

Here is to hoping you get back in the seat sooner than you expect JR.    I agree there are some good souls on here and we try to take care of each other when we can.  

In honor of that sentiment..  Krissy Lights  I will do the mouth movements to a song for you to get you rolling.   Hopefully a song which I can also put in my own shows. (ok I admit I am not as generous as my hero JR on this front)  

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8 minutes ago, ItsMeBobO said:

Here is to hoping you get back in the seat sooner than you expect JR.    I agree there are some good souls on here and we try to take care of each other when we can.  

In honor of that sentiment..  Krissy Lights  I will do the mouth movements to a song for you to get you rolling.   Hopefully a song which I can also put in my own shows. (ok I admit I am not as generous as my hero JR on this front)  

You are selling yourself short!!

Thank you

To everyone Bob took me under his wings and taught me Papagayo. As I said above “he is the guru/ master of papagayo and if your are as lucky as I am to get to know him- one of the kindest people you may meet.

JR

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Just ignore that!   Its a nothing error.      This version of papagayo has folders for the images called mouths.  There is a file in the mouths folder somewhere which is not an image.   The program only expects images in the image folder and is burping cause it doesnt know how to handle it.  The program should just be silent on this error and continue.   

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I looked into this deeper.  I am going to take the blame for this error box popping up.   In the PapagayoToLOR program I wrote 10 years ago there is a "view" button on the upper right.   This generates a file called CompareMouths.html and saves it in the mouths folder.   This allows you to see everything at a glance so you know how to handle the face you are working on.   Sorry   my bad.    Please continue to ignore and blame me when you click. 

PapagayoToLOR.jpg

PapagayoCompare.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, ItsMeBobO said:

I looked into this deeper.  I am going to take the blame for this error box popping up.   In the PapagayoToLOR program I wrote 10 years ago there is a "view" button on the upper right.   This generates a file called CompareMouths.html and saves it in the mouths folder.   This allows you to see everything at a glance so you know how to handle the face you are working on.   Sorry   my bad.    Please continue to ignore and blame me when you click. 

PapagayoToLOR.jpg

PapagayoCompare.jpg

 

It’s all your fault.

JR

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I Have many 5 mouth position faces between my Halloween Pumpkins and singing trees but this year I added a matrix. I now use 10 mouth positions with the matrix and I still use the old 5 position faces too. . In the beginning, like 10 years ago for me I did it the JR way. One mouth movement at a time. I then discovered Papagayo and BobO's page and I have never looked back. I update to the latest version as often as I can and the same with BobO's Papagayo to LOR program. I pride my self on accurate looking animation and Papagayo works best for me. This video shows some of my work. It's a old video from 2014 but all the mouth movements were done in Papagayo. Disney's haunted house intro and This Is Halloween.

 

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