Want to dive into Pixel tree for next year...

[Donl1150]

Well, the Show is running smoothly and I can see the winding-down process beginning.  But that IS just the beginning.  I am looking forward to a small addition for next year but need some help.

I currently run a v4.4. Pro license with Super Star Demo.  I have 4 - CBT16PC controllers for the display, using about 60 circuits total.  A relatively compact display on the house and front yard with 3 singing faces and various bush lights.  All using incans.  I currently use two ELL’s to run the show wirelessly from the house.

I have been thinking of converting to LED’s but not done so yet.  I think I want to try a different approach first.  I have always thought of exploring pixels, RGB and think I will try my hand at a modest Mega tree using them.  

Here’s where I need help……lots of questions, with more to come I am sure:

Equipment

• I assume LOR can handle such a project.
  • What software level (or upgrade) do I need that will keep the incans (or future LED’s) running and also run a pixel tree?  
    • Since there would be a learning curve anyway, would now be the time to up to v5?  Are there advantages in v5 that would be useful in the pixel environment?
  • What pieces of hardware (controllers, adapters, etc) do I need to add?
  • Can I continue to use the ELL’s or do I need to hardwire out to the display?

Tree

• Right now I am thinking about 10’ with 360 degree viewing.
  • How many strips would give a good look?  I assume either 16 or 32?
  • What is a good spacing of the pixels on the strip for a 10’ tree?
  • Recommendation for type or style of pixel to get?

Thanks in advance for all of the advice.

[dibblejr]

12 hours ago, Donl1150 said:

Well, the Show is running smoothly and I can see the winding-down process beginning.  But that IS just the beginning.  I am looking forward to a small addition for next year but need some help.

I currently run a v4.4. Pro license with Super Star Demo.  I have 4 - CBT16PC controllers for the display, using about 60 circuits total.  A relatively compact display on the house and front yard with 3 singing faces and various bush lights.  All using incans.  I currently use two ELL’s to run the show wirelessly from the house.

I have been thinking of converting to LED’s but not done so yet.  I think I want to try a different approach first.  I have always thought of exploring pixels, RGB and think I will try my hand at a modest Mega tree using them.  

Here’s where I need help……lots of questions, with more to come I am sure:

Equipment

• I assume LOR can handle such a project.
  • What software level (or upgrade) do I need that will keep the incans (or future LED’s) running and also run a pixel tree?  
    • Since there would be a learning curve anyway, would now be the time to up to v5?  Are there advantages in v5 that would be useful in the pixel environment?
  • What pieces of hardware (controllers, adapters, etc) do I need to add?
  • Can I continue to use the ELL’s or do I need to hardwire out to the display?

Tree

• Right now I am thinking about 10’ with 360 degree viewing.
  • How many strips would give a good look?  I assume either 16 or 32?
  • What is a good spacing of the pixels on the strip for a 10’ tree?
  • Recommendation for type or style of pixel to get?

Thanks in advance for all of the advice.

You will have to run a separate NW for the pixels. ELLS will not run at the required speeds.

An easy and stable controller for this would be one of the pixie series either an 8 or a 16 depending.  LOR prices are more affordable than builds are now a days.  I have built all of mine from scratch but that was because when I beta tested the pixie16 there was no pre assembled pixie 8's or 16's. 

They are by far the easiest smart pixels controllers to learn and use.

S5 has a lot of advantages one being the speed you can whip a sequence together using motion effect rows (ME). Even though I love the S4 vis for most the S5 preview is easier to use. I do create my custom props in the S4 Vis and import them in to S5 for the most part. Some of my singing and moving props have 30+ ME rows and they are easier to sequence for my eyes on the S4 grey normal channels. 

Pixels cant beat LORs warranty. Square or round.  12V recommended. Keep that in mind while buying the controller, you will want the psu to match the pixels.

Spacing really depends on viewing distance, a long viewing distance for my ccr pixel tree in 200' my ccr ribbons are 3" apart if I recall. LOR  Been running them since 2017 pre Halloween for beta testing. If you distance is shorter closer pixels are required especially if you will have images in your sequences. 

In s5 you can also turn down the intensity to make the lights dimmer. All of my rgb props are set at 30-40%.

Remember a 360 tree cannot be viewed from the back unless you have viewers driving or walking around the tree. You can save a few dollars there.

I have a video in the Christmas display section just under the coffee shop

There you can see my ccr tree and 360 pixel tree and other props. I built the majority of what you see so if you have questions feel free to ask in a PM. However keep in mind I have shortened my LOR forums time down quite a bit until after New Years but I will reply to a PM.

JR

[Donl1150]

Thanks JR.  The more I read and learn the more questions that develop.  Now that the bride got involved, the plans have changed too.  Instead of a medium mega tree, she saw these (https://boscoyostudio.com/product/daycor-hires-chromabulb-30-hanging/) and wants 5 of them to hang along the front gutter of the house.  I actually think that may be an easier way for me to learn so that is the plan right now.

Since I haven't bought any equipment yet to add to my LOR, I thought I might ask just to make sure I start of the the right foot.  Each prop takes 143 nodes, so I guess 15 - 50 node pixels would do the trick in total.  Then the question is which Pixie (or Pixies) would work.  I assume a Pixie8 since that can handle 800 pixels?  (need only 715).  Is this the best approach or would having multiple Pixie4's be a better choice?  There are linear distance limitations that have to be considered if I understand things properly.  Am I on the right track?  Thanks

[Mr. P]

It depends on how far apart they hang on the gutter. Remember that distance is an enemy to pixels. I always recommend a couple smaller controllers over a large one to cover many props so you can keep the controllers close to the props. Plus, if you lose a controller you only lose one or two props instead of all of them.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mr. P

[dibblejr]

1 hour ago, Donl1150 said:

Thanks JR.  The more I read and learn the more questions that develop.  Now that the bride got involved, the plans have changed too.  Instead of a medium mega tree, she saw these (https://boscoyostudio.com/product/daycor-hires-chromabulb-30-hanging/) and wants 5 of them to hang along the front gutter of the house.  I actually think that may be an easier way for me to learn so that is the plan right now.

Since I haven't bought any equipment yet to add to my LOR, I thought I might ask just to make sure I start of the the right foot.  Each prop takes 143 nodes, so I guess 15 - 50 node pixels would do the trick in total.  Then the question is which Pixie (or Pixies) would work.  I assume a Pixie8 since that can handle 800 pixels?  (need only 715).  Is this the best approach or would having multiple Pixie4's be a better choice?  There are linear distance limitations that have to be considered if I understand things properly.  Am I on the right track?  Thanks

Something to consider here. The BS props are IMO "mainly designed and mapped for DMX controllers". In order to use all of those 11 channels with a pixie controller in S4 you would need a pixie16. I port per movement.

Some movements could be taken away and you could get by using a pixie 8. But still one port per movement. Outline, Eyes Open, Eyes Closed, Top Lip, Mid Lip, Bottom Lip, Vowel Mouth and O Mouth

A Pixcon 16 you could use 1 pixcon for 2 full working singing bulbs. 

You could get a pixie16 and get 2 bulbs out of each consolidating the Blinky eyes effects and just use the effects I mentioned above, If that would be your option you would be fine running all of them and any other ac controllers an one high speed ELOR network.

As far as distance, some of my pixie controlled props are 120' from the controller to the first pixel. I have tested longer distances with success however my final requirement from the ground, through my wall, up to the attic and over the tall dining room ceiling to my highest peek gable is 6 x 20' extensions. 120'. 

JR

Edited December 27, 2020 by dibblejr

[TheDucks]

JR you lost me. It is 143 nodes. A single Pixie port can drive those (with PI), You just group the nodes (SE user here) for each action (assumes you want to treat the outlines as a single)

I do wish that LOR had made the built in Pixie Singing face macro User configurable (node list per macro channel)

[dibblejr]

20 hours ago, TheDucks said:

JR you lost me. It is 143 nodes. A single Pixie port can drive those (with PI), You just group the nodes (SE user here) for each action (assumes you want to treat the outlines as a single)

I do wish that LOR had made the built in Pixie Singing face macro User configurable (node list per macro channel)

A single Pixie port can drive 170 nodes. I have been doing that since I beta tested. 

I have my longest run 156 nodes without PI.

PI is not a “must” it all depends on the situation.

Until S5 I didn’t turn down any intensities since the only way to do it was in sequencing and it is more difficult that it was worth. Still had no PI at 100%
 

In S5 since it is so easy all of my pixies controllers are set to 30-40% very easily done in prop def.

All of my DMX controllers are controlled within the controller settings.

Grouping- you are 100% correct. I was  for whatever reason stuck on dumb nodes, the problem there is I don’t use dumb nodes but was explains to another member why I don’t use dumb nodes. 
 

i don’t know how or why that conversation was stuck in my head. LOL I do jot drink, if that’s what anyone thinks. LOL

I even made a help tutorial on that very subject, grouping nodes for the LOR singing faces pixie2’s for other members here last year. LOL

Will correct my statement.

But I will say - he should not need PI but that will only be known once he tests an actual prop.

Each case is different and a lot come in to play but none of my ribbons, nodes or 5050 pixels have PI, before or after S5 and all pixie controllers.

JR

Donl1150

I cannot edit my long post above but it was a mis quote. 

Ignore the 1 port per movement. Dumb nodes there.

Group your nodes.

You probably still will not be able to want to try to follow the mapping that BS uses for the faces.

Often times when the big sellers of RGB props their auto cad computers help them help buyers buy using a system to make most layouts so you won’t have to cut nodes and splice due to spacing requirements.

You can do it with a pixie but sorting it all out at the end is not an easy task.

my recommendation is group as the Ducks says and in my video tutorial on how to set them Up in SE will help with that.

You will have 7 nodes to use for skipping for space. But I suggest instead of skipping, cut and splice for reaches.

There are some that sell nodes with 6” spacing. I prefer those for my singing elements just to take away as much splicing as I can.

Even with 6” spacing there are some props I still have to cut and splice a section of wire in.

JR

 

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by dibblejr

[Indigo]

Don't do it, LOL.  Pixels are the dark side.  I wanted to add a little pixel tree to my existing setup, just to play with it and see how it works, and it was a nightmare.  Everything is different with pixels... EVERYTHING. You basically are starting over from scratch. You are really smart to start now for next year, it will take you that long to figure out how to integrate. I started in July, and after having to upgrade basically my whole entire setup, I'm still having issues. :-(

 

[dibblejr]

2 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Don't do it, LOL.  Pixels are the dark side.  I wanted to add a little pixel tree to my existing setup, just to play with it and see how it works, and it was a nightmare.  Everything is different with pixels... EVERYTHING. You basically are starting over from scratch. You are really smart to start now for next year, it will take you that long to figure out how to integrate. I started in July, and after having to upgrade basically my whole entire setup, I'm still having issues. :-(

 

The hobby would be boring if it wasn't for the occasional challenges. For years I said "not going to S5" even as almost all of my friends moved on to S5 Beta. I had my reasons, my singing faces and the thought that i could not sequence them in S5. Until one day while helping someone and on a team viewer session he had my face sequence and my animation in his S5 computer. After that I started trying S5 and yes I gave up a few times but after a lot of help from some really great friends I started using S5 since March with my Covid show.

Pixels are a lot of fun what makes it difficult is the props the user adds. The more complex the props the harder it is to sequence but practice makes perfect.

JR

[Mr. P]

21 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Don't do it, LOL.  Pixels are the dark side.  I wanted to add a little pixel tree to my existing setup, just to play with it and see how it works, and it was a nightmare.  Everything is different with pixels... EVERYTHING. You basically are starting over from scratch. You are really smart to start now for next year, it will take you that long to figure out how to integrate. I started in July, and after having to upgrade basically my whole entire setup, I'm still having issues. :-(

 

Pixels are very easy to use as I run 30+ pixel controllers. The key is to spend January thru September getting everything working and set up. Once it is set up and working, don't mess with it. You started changing matrixes into trees in the middle of shows, just leave it be until January when it's time to start messing with it again.

[Indigo]

1 hour ago, Mr. P said:

Pixels are very easy to use as I run 30+ pixel controllers. The key is to spend January thru September getting everything working and set up. Once it is set up and working, don't mess with it. You started changing matrixes into trees in the middle of shows, just leave it be until January when it's time to start messing with it again.

Pixels are a nightmare if you are trying to add them into an existing analog show.  That's all I'm saying. If I did it again, I just start over again with just pixels.

[dibblejr]

10 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Pixels are a nightmare if you are trying to add them into an existing analog show.  That's all I'm saying. If I did it again, I just start over again with just pixels.

You may not know this but, if you have a really good non pixel show and you want to add pixels in and replace props, you can copy those sequences in to RGB channels and if you want to keep it simple just create the colors from the normal combinations or you can use intensity to change the colors to make them more custom.

You can do the same in reverse but of course you are limited to the colors of your light strings.

Technically for some of us adding RGB is only a bulb with a million colors. Now adding pictures and videos to them , that is a little more work but a personal choice.

If you started out with only pixels you would be in the same situation. Practice, practice, do not put your computer in a corner until next year and continue to practice and soon you will love it.

JR

[PhilMassey]

My mini trees are AC strings, 18 channels. Everything else is pixels. They coexist perfectly well together. As JR said, pixels are just A LOT of channels, I have been sequencing them without Superstar or motion effects since 2012, until S5 made motion effects easier to use.