Licensing & Techinicial Question(s)

[KYHI]

I am looking for clarity on the licensing and use of the S5 software - a Pro license is required for MotionPaks - I assume for Singing Faces & Animation

Then then there is another SuperStar Sequencer Option based upon number of CCR-II Strips

What are the limitations on the S5 software in regards to CCR-II strips vs Pixel bulbs ?

As it appears to me anyway that just to use the an A/C controller, a Pixie Tree, a Singing Tree and a CCR-II Ribbon Tree gets costly just in software licensing. Never mind the actual hardware.

Also been reading the forums a lot over the last few days and see many S5 software related issues - mostly about software upgrading issues - But have seen several Hardware related issues too.

LOR does not really provide technical specs on the Assembled Packages - thus there is no way of knowing the limitations of the hardware, ie power supply, watts per pixel or string, total pixel count supported, etc

Yes, I am very technical person and work with software everyday.. Clearly this Lighter Passion is not cheap and if going to make a large investment such as this, then would prefer to get what is required, rather then to find out later, that what I purchased was not enough or good enough, for my intended purpose.

My gutter line alone is 240 linear feet and each small window is 18 linear feet - so we talking a lot of pixel length, power supply demands and control channels..

Not sure if this post really a question, just looking for license and technical info.. To have a decent game plan and budget for the 2021 Halloween & Christmas Show.

As we all know that plan all comes down to - Amps - Watts - Total load - Hardware Limitations - Layout & Design

Thanks in advance for any advise,

Jimmy

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by KYHI

[Mr. P]

My recommendation, if you are a techy and plan on being in LOR for some time then just get the Pro license and be done with it. A Pro license gives you all the benefits of motionpaks and enhanced networks which you will need for pixels.

As far as LOR, the networks are slow but they are long 1,000K speed and up to 4,000 feet. Pixels are limited to around 2,400 per network so if you plan on a bunch of pixels then plan on many networks. One exception would be E1.31 for pixels as it is a way faster network but limited to 300 feet without a switch to extend it.

Supserstar is a nice add on feature but not necessary as S5 was developed for heavy use of pixels but it does take some time to learn how to use it.

[KYHI]

22 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

S5 was developed for heavy use of pixels but it does take some time to learn how to use it

That is Step 1) - Learn the way around the Software as it has a major impact on the presentation....

[KYHI]

29 minutes ago, Mr. P said:

One exception would be E1.31 for pixels as it is a way faster network but limited to 300 feet without a switch to extend it.

The 300 ft would not be an issue - but when you talking E1.31 you talking Cat5 network from PC Network Card to Network Hub to LOR controllers ? ie Gigabyte LAN, no serial / USB adapters

Edited December 16, 2020 by KYHI

[TheDucks]

18 minutes ago, KYHI said:

The 300 ft would not be an issue - but when you talking E1.31 you talking Cat5 network from PC Network Card to Network Hub to LOR controllers ? ie Gigabyte LAN, no serial / USB adapters

Let us STOP thinking CAT5 as a Network Type. CAT5 is a wire performance spec.  LOR, some DMX networks are built on the common (thus cheap), CAT5 Patch Cable spec (EIA568x).

E1.31.is true 10/100 Ethernet.  (I have not heard of any 1G Network DMX devices, they all run at 10/100M)

LOR is RS485 (and really only use 1 pair in the cable) It does use a second pair to supply a small bit of 9VDC for other LOR accessory items

Only LOR device is the  Pixcon16, which is ALSO E1.31

[KYHI]

You are correct Cat5 is not a Network type - it is a method to connect devices to allow communication

E1.31 is a Protocol sent across the network.. Thus requiring E1.31 protocol supported devices

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by KYHI

[TheDucks]

3 minutes ago, KYHI said:

You are correct Cat5 is not a Network type - it is a method to connect devices to allow communication

E1.31 is a Protocol sent across the network.. Thus requiring E1.31 protocol supported devices

 

I just rag on this because of all the 'Plug fits, it must be correct' posts. I hate plastic parts smoke.

For old-timers,there is nothing worse than walking into the sound booth and the smell of scorched Selenium Rectifier 😲

[KYHI]

I assume most LOR controllers do not pass this protocol through and would require a direct network Hub connection and not daisy chained  ?

Yet can have Multi networks thru a single network Hub ie each controller attached to different port on a single network hub ?

And does the LOR network require the USB to Network adapter or can this be done via a PC network port ?

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, KYHI said:

Then then there is another SuperStar Sequencer Option based upon number of CCR-II Strips

Part of that terminology is based on some old history.  When LOR first came out with any pixel based device, it was the Cosmic Color Ribbon - or CCR.  When SuperStar first came out, still the only LOR pixel device were CCRs, so the license levels in SuperStar were expressed as the number of CCRs that could be exported.  In reality the actual limit is the number of channels in that number of CCRs (150 channels per CCR).  Over time of course there became many other pixel based devices out there.  If you look at the LOR Store on the SuperStar page, it lists the number of CCRs and the number of Pixels.  For example, I have an 80 CCR or 4000 pixels (or 12,000 channels) SuperStar license.  BTW, SuperStar will happily sequence non RGB channels.

As previously stated, SuperStar is an add on.  I have been using SuperStar since 2012 and love it.  For all practical purposes, I sequence my entire show in SuperStar.

2 hours ago, KYHI said:

What are the limitations on the S5 software in regards to CCR-II strips vs Pixel bulbs ?

The only real limit is the number of LOR controllers is limited in lower level software licenses.  As far as the software is concerned, there is no difference between a CCR vs CCP vs CCR-II vs any other pixel.

 

[PhilMassey]

6 minutes ago, KYHI said:

I assume most LOR controllers do not pass this protocol through and would require a direct network Hub connection and not daisy chained  ?

RS 485 is daisy chained from one controller to the next up to the channel limit at which point you start a second network with a second LOR USB to 485 adaptor.

6 minutes ago, KYHI said:

Yet can have Multi networks thru a single network Hub ie each controller attached to different port on a single network hub ?

And does the LOR network require the USB to Network adapter or can this be done via a PC network port ?

The LOR USB to 485 network does NOT use the LAN ethernet port.

Controllers are daisy chained off the USB adaptor. If your pc does not have enough USB  ports  you can add more with a powered USB hub. You need a USB port for each USB adaptor.

There is only one LOR controller which can use true ethernet, the Pixcon 16. Just to confuse things, it can also do RS 485 and has separate input jacks for each. Unfortunately both jacks are RJ45.

[TheDucks]

35 minutes ago, KYHI said:

I assume most LOR controllers do not pass this protocol through and would require a direct network Hub connection and not daisy chained  ?

Yet can have Multi networks thru a single network Hub ie each controller attached to different port on a single network hub ?

And does the LOR network require the USB to Network adapter or can this be done via a PC network port ?

LOR (RS485) can be (and are normally) daisy chained to 4000' total. You do need to separate networks  (another Adapter at the PC) when the channel count gets high and lots of traffic. Drop outs is a clue.

Terminating (120 ohms) the END is a recommended RS485 practice. Newer Pixies now have a jumper to do this

OTOH Ethernet (E1.31) is NEVER chained. IIRC the Pixcon has ADDITIONAL ports that can convert E1.31 to LOR RS485 for downstream use.

[KYHI]

Many thanks for the last several Very technical and informative replies....

Edited December 16, 2020 by KYHI

[KYHI]

Just a Repost from another Topic Re: Pixie Controllers

Quote

Been doing a little research in regards to LED wattage, power supplies and power injection

The 12v 5050 RGB LED's are listed at .3w / LED

The Round & Square are (1) LED / Pixel

The C9 Bulbs are (2) LED's / Pixel

The Ribbons are (3) LED's / Pixel

(1) 50 Pixel 12v Ribbon is 45w

(1) 50 Pixel 12v C9 String is 30w

(1) 50 Pixel 12v Round/Square String is 15w

The 12v Pixie Controllers are Max Rated @ 4A 48w / Output Port

12 Volt Power Injection is recommended every 300 LED's due to voltage drop

150 Pixel Control Channels / Pixie Port - seems to the Normal Design for Hardware and Software

I can now figure the correct Power Supply needs for my Pixie Setup

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by KYHI

[k6ccc]

See my response in the other post.  This information is only partially right, and in some cases, quite wrong.

 

[KYHI]

Well, I have a Plan and a shopping list - But I am finding that the use of the S5 software is a real pain.....

It's a lot of money for a Lighting Display and the Demo Software offers nothing and the Help is very basic

Even SS is has limited effects and little help...

I'm Frustrated........

 

[KYHI]

I can see what the software can do - the problem is getting the software to do it...

I work with software all day and with this software there is a lot of assumption as to what buttons do what, how they work, how things are created, the file extensions used..

Samples that do not open and *.lee file errors... The program uses 3 different directories.. The DEMO version should (Every other vendor does) allow to demo the full use of it..

Every Demo or Trial Version I have ever used has limited "Function" which in this case should be "No Actual Light Control" but should be able to navigate the program...

Creating a Windows OS and integrating Applications into an OS that runs completely from within system memory (RAM) - is much easier...

https://www.tenforums.com/software-apps/117664-win10xpe-build-your-own-rescue-media.html

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by KYHI

[k6ccc]

1 hour ago, KYHI said:

Demo Software offers nothing and the Help is very basic

Your profile says you have a Pro level license.  Why are you concerned with the Demo version?

 

[dibblejr]

2 hours ago, KYHI said:

Well, I have a Plan and a shopping list - But I am finding that the use of the S5 software is a real pain.....

It's a lot of money for a Lighting Display and the Demo Software offers nothing and the Help is very basic

Even SS is has limited effects and little help...

I'm Frustrated........

 

Practice can make you as close to perfect as you want in this hobby.

Some of us use our software every day all year, I use both S4 and S5. This is not a hobby that you want to pick up today and tomorrow put it down until a week before show time.

I use it every day, help countless numbers of members and people who are not members as well and still I sometimes mis speak or make mistakes.

As far as software, when I picked up the Demo mode it worked just as I had expected as something in the demo mode should.

Yes, it is easy to get frustrated but in the end a great light show when needed makes up for the few frustrations.

Remember not everyone can sequence every prop. Even if they could something would be lacking in one or another of the props.

Best of luck and happy lighting.

JR

[KYHI]

I added Pro to my profile due to the Package I "was" going to purchase...

This has been an experience like no other - I'll fight with this a little longer - turning the lights on and off is easy..

SuperStar seems to be the backbone of every show I have watched

And yes I do commit myself daily from 5am til real late at night since I have joined this fourom

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by KYHI

[k6ccc]

13 minutes ago, KYHI said:

SuperStar seems to be the backbone of every show I have watched

Although I use SuperStar almost exclusively, I would not say that it is the backbone of every show.  That is becoming more true with Pixel Editor in S4 and even more so with Motion Effects in S5.  From reading the forum, I rather suspect that SuperStar is not getting anywhere near as many new users as it used to.  Prior to Pixel Editor in S4, the only easy way to handle large number of pixels was SuperStar.  PE and Motion Effects have largely taken away that advantage.  And yes, there are people who do sequence fairly large number of pixels with nothing but Sequence Editor, it is the hard way of doing it.