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Just need to vent (sequencing)


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I was driving myself literally bananas trying to sequence a version of "Tea (Chinese Dance)" from the Nutcracker Suite.   There's a pulsating beat that I was trying to sync an effect with, but no matter how many times I copied and pasted the first few, it always managed to be off by mid-song and then BACK ON SYNC at the end of the song!    

Finally I had the beat wizard plot it out, verified that it was on target, and cut the track into 1/100th segments, then measured where the beat wizard started each beat and measured the delta.

 

   

Start Time End Time Delta
0.1 1.22 1.12
1.22 2.3 1.08
2.31 3.39 1.08
3.4 4.51 1.11
4.52 5.5 0.98
5.51 6.63 1.12
6.64 7.72 1.08
7.73 8.79 1.06
8.8 9.85 1.05
9.86 10.91 1.05
10.92 12 1.08
12.01 13.05 1.04
13.06 14.05 0.99
14.06 15.02 0.96
15.03 16.09 1.06

 

I'm going to delete this sequence and go drink now. 

 

Edited by jtomason
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I ran into it once but found that if I processed the audio through Audacity, CBR mode, things worked better for me. Not sure it will for every song. VBR messes things up

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So this sequencing issue was caused by inconsistent timing in the track?  Makes me wonder how frustrating it would be to sequence a song by the rock group Rush.  They were known for changing time signatures within the same song, and had some weird non-standard time signatures like 11/8,  5/4, 6/4, 7/4, 9/8, etc.  As an amateur musician I struggle with normal time signatures like 3/4 and 4/4 lol.

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If it's close and just a little off here and there, I quit being anal about that years ago, no such thing as 100% perfect, so close still gets you a cigar in my book! LOL

And chances are the majority of folks watching your display won't even notice it anyway.

Edited by Orville
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Listen to Orville.

If you have been reading this board recently, you have read that some Car radios will even mess with the delay, making all your precise work for naught.

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2 hours ago, Speedster said:

So this sequencing issue was caused by inconsistent timing in the track?  Makes me wonder how frustrating it would be to sequence a song by the rock group Rush.  They were known for changing time signatures within the same song, and had some weird non-standard time signatures like 11/8,  5/4, 6/4, 7/4, 9/8, etc.  As an amateur musician I struggle with normal time signatures like 3/4 and 4/4 lol.

i have four Rush songs and two by Tool, and yes, I am quite insane.

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7 hours ago, PhilMassey said:

i have four Rush songs and two by Tool, and yes, I am quite insane.

TSO's music is just another one of those areas that had me create that tag line of mine. LOL   I do expect to see the guys with that nice white coat with the long arms that tie in the back very soon.🤪

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I started copy/paste on a sequence when I noticed it too was off in places, so I just left it and did a few tweaks where it seemed to be off enough I could tell (not sure the average watcher will notice)...after listening to the same song and sections of it over and over and ....my wife said "Really, I hate that song now..." LOL.

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18 minutes ago, CATESJAOR said:

I started copy/paste on a sequence when I noticed it too was off in places, so I just left it and did a few tweaks where it seemed to be off enough I could tell (not sure the average watcher will notice)...after listening to the same song and sections of it over and over and ....my wife said "Really, I hate that song now..." LOL.

If its off from the copy paste, switch to "paste by time". I was having that issue and Matt straightened me out.

 

** edit = paste by time not copy. My apologies

JR

Edited by dibblejr
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On 12/16/2020 at 2:45 PM, CATESJAOR said:

I started copy/paste on a sequence when I noticed it too was off in places, so I just left it and did a few tweaks where it seemed to be off enough I could tell (not sure the average watcher will notice)...after listening to the same song and sections of it over and over and ....my wife said "Really, I hate that song now..." LOL.

And that bold statement above is why a lot of us use headphones when sequencing for our displays.  But then it's not much fun if you can't bring others along for the "insanity ride". ROFLMAO

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This is why I have my sequencing computer in the basement, far away from everyone else! But my wife says the same thing when I’m working on music for a client (I do arranging and orchestrating as part of my “real” job) and I’m tweaking a section. It drives her crazy!

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If I hear that song one more time !!!!!!! ,-----you will have to make yer own dinner   !!!!!!!!!  I now work at my work bench the garage ,headphones and the door closed . Looking forward to a nice hot meal !!!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 12/8/2020 at 11:41 AM, PhilMassey said:

i have four Rush songs and two by Tool, and yes, I am quite insane.

I would love to see the TOOL songs. Video??

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53 minutes ago, PhilMassey said:

My friend, they are awesome.

One thing about it, in this hobby you can tell those that sequence with a headset and a mouse/ keyboard and those that don't! Great job, after this covid gonna have to buy some of your concert tickets and pay a visit.

JR

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Thanks JR.You are correct about the manual timing. In any case, the beat wizard can't make head nor tails of Tool's time signatures.

They took months to get right. Danny Carey's drums are a nightmare to sequence.

Take a look at the Master at Work.

 

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Some songs you can tell were put together on a computer. The beats are exactly the same, and you can pretty much cut and paste by time. Then other songs are just all completely off. I think some of these musicians drink while performing. For me I find guitars to be the hardest to sequence. Figuring out right when that note starts and they always seem to be a bit off (asynchronous). If I'm having trouble I just set the playback to 1/4 speed and manually mark the timings then go back and nudge them till I'm happy with it. (sometimes takes years)

 

Edited by jstorms
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3 minutes ago, jstorms said:

Some songs you can tell were put together on a computer. The beats are exactly the same, and you can pretty much cut and paste by time. Then other songs are just all completely off. I think some of these musicians drink while performing. For me I find guitars to be the hardest to sequence. Figuring out right when that note starts and they always seem to be a bit off (asynchronous). If I'm having trouble I just set the playback to 1/4 speed and manually mark the timings then go back and nudge them till I'm happy with it. (sometimes takes years)

 

I personally sequence 100% by mouse and headset at full speed. I just cant listen to a slower version of a song, never could. The wizards just don't cut it for me. IMO- once you hear the beat , you are late.I also watch videos and music sheets to help when needed. Recently I sequence the Christmas rhapsody. It 100% follows the Bohemian Rhapsody music sheet but to sequence some of the guitar I watched a youtube Bohemian Rhapsody guitar lesson. It was broken down in to 7 parts and made it very simple for me to get the strums for my snowmen guitarists.

JR

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The beat wizard tends to be a little off sometimes on where in the wave form it picks up the beat. If you have a song where the tempo changes then applying the beat wizard for each section of the song makes it work better.

I like using the queen mary vamp plugins with Audacity (or other software that I won't mention), they get me pretty close and then for those tricky spots I'll listen to the song slow. Usually this is when I have one element synched up to something where if it were to be off it would be really noticeable. I don't go all OCD on a song and listen to it 8 times at 1/4 speed, that would be silly.

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3 minutes ago, jstorms said:

The beat wizard tends to be a little off sometimes on where in the wave form it picks up the beat. If you have a song where the tempo changes then applying the beat wizard for each section of the song makes it work better.

I like using the queen mary vamp plugins with Audacity (or other software that I won't mention), they get me pretty close and then for those tricky spots I'll listen to the song slow. Usually this is when I have one element synched up to something where if it were to be off it would be really noticeable. I don't go all OCD on a song and listen to it 8 times at 1/4 speed, that would be silly.

LOL on the silly part. BTW, your videos are a great resource for folks here that are needing to learn. Doing faces I listen to the words quite a bit and review frequently to ensure I have a heartbeat.

JR

Edited by dibblejr
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On 1/4/2021 at 8:54 PM, PhilMassey said:

Those were AWESOME!!!! Thinking 46 & 2 might just have to go into my show this year. Thinking Prison..x might be too much for the neighbors though. LOL

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