Thinking of RGB...

[kzziboy]

Hey everyone.  I'm pretty basic and old school with Lightorama.  All I have is version 3.12.4 Basic Plus.

I have 4 controllers, that's it.  I have a few questions about upgrading to using RGB.  I'm looking at starting with the Pixie 16 controller and adding a pixel tree.  My thought is to use all 16 channels on the pixel tree if I'm correct in how that would work.

I would want to continue to use my regular CTB16PC controllers with it.  I believe I read something that said they need to be Generation 3 or newer in order to update the firmware to use with RGB controllers???  Is that right?  Am I correct in saying that IF they are Gen 3 or newer then they will run on a fast enough network to work with RGB?

I looked at the sticker INSIDE the controllers and each one ends with G3.  That means Generation 3 I assume...

So, if all that works I understand that I would need to update my software.  Also, since I don't have money to really burn on this, yes I would want to do this as inexpensively as possible.  I would purchase the RGB 50 bulb strings on Amazon.  12 volt is best, right?  I believe it has a lot to do with not loosing brightness on the strings towards the ends??

I would also purchase a power supply on Amazon.  Not sure what size would be best.  I see a 12 volt 30 amp 360 watt one on there for $22.  Would that work?

I would purchase the enclosure from Lightorama for $25 to install the Pixie 16 controller and power supply.

In the end, I would want to use a lot of the OLD sequences but look to edit them and "paste in" a sequence that would run the pixel tree.

Also I would look to add other RGB controllers to run around my windows and on my house at a later time.  Am I correct saying that those should be the smaller controllers so that there doesn't need to be a LONG run of wire between the lights and the controller?

I'm sure I have more questions, but I'm just trying to grasp this in reality.  I see so much of it now and I want to get into it but I have no idea where to start.  I have watched quite a few videos, but they really don't answer a lot of the questions I wrote above.  Thanks so much for your time and I appreciate any input!

Thanks!

Adrian

[TheDucks]

G3 have a Green LED

BUT

You want that Pixie16  on a separate network (you could get away with a Pixie4 on the same as 3 AC controllers, but a 16 is gobbling data.

You also want a RED (HS) adapter for your second net. BTW Pixies can not be on a ELL net

Smaller is better when covering a wide spacing.  25' from a Smart controller will be safe (12V).

2400 nodes on a net is a number  I have heard for pixies

Edited November 18, 2020 by TheDucks

[Orville]

You will need the PRO license level, although Advanced may work, however, from the RGB Controller you describe, I think that one will only work with the PRO license level.  Although I'm not as well versed on which of the Pixie 16's do or don't require PRO, but PRO is still the best way to go, especially since it will open up all features of using RGB lights and Controllers, whereas the Advanced License still has some limitations.  When I went to RGB, I moved up from Advanced to Pro because I wanted to be able to use ALL feature of the LOR Software Suite.

I know you say money is on a limited amount, but do remember, the software is actually the HEART to making everything work together, the better it is, the more you can do with it.

And to be clear, you just want to daisy chain the Pixie 16 via Cat5 cable to the CTB16PC AC Controller, which is correct.

Also, seems some folks have had issues if the RGB Controller isn't the first one in the Daisy Chain of Controllers, even with the G3, I've rad folks having issues, this may just be a firmware update or perhaps the RGB Controllers need to always take precedence in the Daisy Chain.   I don't have the newer G3 CTB16PC Controllers, but even if I did, I'd keep my CTB16PC Controllers on a separate network from my RGB Controllers.

Makes finding issues and troubleshooting with each controller type a little easier when each is on it's own network.  But that's my preference.

 

[kzziboy]

Thanks for your responses!!

Green LED, yup, that's what I got. Thanks!

Yes, I would go to the Pro license level.  I wouldn't short change that.  If you're going to upgrade, might as well go all the way.

As for the networking, if you run the CTB16PC Controllers on a separate network, how do you go about doing that?  You just simply use two different USB Ports? with the appropriate adapters?

Was I correct in what power supply to use for the RGB lights?  

Also the part about ADDING RGB controllers...  Is that the best way to do it?  Add smaller controllers which are placed closer to the lights you want to run to avoid long runs of wire?  For instance if you want to run lights around windows and your garage doors.  In this case use a controller for the LEFT side of your house and another one for the RIGHT side?  Again, to avoid LONG runs of wire to the lights.

Any other suggestions or major oversights that you can see?

Thanks so much!!

[TheDucks]

26 minutes ago, kzziboy said:

Thanks for your responses!!

Green LED, yup, that's what I got. Thanks!

Yes, I would go to the Pro license level.  I wouldn't short change that.  If you're going to upgrade, might as well go all the way.

As for the networking, if you run the CTB16PC Controllers on a separate network, how do you go about doing that?  You just simply use two different USB Ports? with the appropriate adapters?

Was I correct in what power supply to use for the RGB lights?  

Also the part about ADDING RGB controllers...  Is that the best way to do it?  Add smaller controllers which are placed closer to the lights you want to run to avoid long runs of wire?  For instance if you want to run lights around windows and your garage doors.  In this case use a controller for the LEFT side of your house and another one for the RIGHT side?  Again, to avoid LONG runs of wire to the lights.

Any other suggestions or major oversights that you can see?

Thanks so much!!

As long as the network traffic permits, I see no issue with mixing compatible devices. My 3 net go to distinct areas There aer AC, DUMB and Smart all on the network cable (and a lone Gen 2 by itself in the side yard narrow strip)

When you sequence, you say what ID and what Net to use. While you could have an ID 10 device on Each network, (IMHO confusing), A sequence can only send to one Net-ID

Power (for RGB) must match your string voltage. Devices that have 2 banks, allow different voltages per bank, BUT you must use care and NOT plug a 5V string into the 12V side. Best avoid, or at least use different connection styles. DO Add up the Loads on a Bank. That is the MINIMUM size (Amps out) that you need   using 12V keeps the Amps per Watt of load down (the power bus has limits.) and saves having to power inject longer strings.

[Mr. P]

Here is my two cents about the power supply. Figure what the wattage is for your strings/strips for the tree, usually around 36 watts each, multiply that by 16 and you get 576 watts. The 576 watts is all lights on 100% plus add 20% overhead as you should never run a power supply constantly over 80% and you are around 700 watts. Now some will chime in and say that you can run the lights at 50% and not use as big a power supply but I look at it this way, if I am going to build a prop then I am going to build it to its max capability whether I use the max or not. 

All of my 16 port controllers (non LOR) are powered by 750 watt power supplies. Granted it may be overkill to some but if I want to run my controllers at 100% then I can as the option is there.

[kzziboy]

Again, thank you...

Question...with RGB Light Strings, what is the maximum LENGTH or AMOUNT OF BULBS that can be on ONE PORT?  I ask because some windows are larger than others so you may need more lights to make it around the frame.  I see most strings come in sets of 50 and are usually 11 to 12 feet long.

Also, what about running RGB light strings along a roof line?  Again, what if you have a LONG run, let's say 40 feet?  What are your options there to cover the entire run and to program it correctly so it looks right?  It's confusing to me because I always think of it from a regular controller standpoint where you can just daisy chain more than one string of lights.  Obviously, it's not that simple with RGB.  What do you do to have the same effect run the entire length of the roof?

I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to RGB.

[k6ccc]

4 minutes ago, kzziboy said:

Question...with RGB Light Strings, what is the maximum LENGTH or AMOUNT OF BULBS that can be on ONE PORT?  I ask because some windows are larger than others so you may need more lights to make it around the frame.  I see most strings come in sets of 50 and are usually 11 to 12 feet long.

That depends on the controller.  As I recall, the Pixie controllers can do 170 pixels per string.  There are some controllers that can handle over 1,000 per string.  That is the numbers of pixels that the controller can drive data for.  Even with a 170 pixel limit of a Pixie controller, at 100%, you can't supply the power for 170 pixels from the controller without using Power Injection.  PI is not especially difficult, but it adds a layer of complication.

 

[PhilMassey]

My gutters where I mount my pixels are 63 feet long. I feed 216 pixels in the center so its 108 in each direction. I use one universe for each half driven by a Sandevices 6804. Lead ins are about 6 feet with the controller mounted under the eaves in the center. There is a little pinking at the ends at 100 percent, but I rarely run that high except for dramatic peaks. 

I try to keep the pixel count per universe and per port around 100 or less and run more but smaller controllers near to the props. I don't power inject at all, but I do have a fairly simple display. 

As far as programming, whether you have 2 sections or 5, the logical order is set in the software, the actual physical order doesn't really matter.

 

[kzziboy]

Like I was saying, most strings I see are 50 bulbs.  Do you just cut the wire and splice them together to make your 108 bulb strings?

[TheDucks]

6 minutes ago, kzziboy said:

Like I was saying, most strings I see are 50 bulbs.  Do you just cut the wire and splice them together to make your 108 bulb strings?

Some have connectors on both ends. Daisy chain.

Pixels are cool in the node # is solely by position. Cut and splice is fine (just test the strings Before cutting: warranty becomes void).

KEEP the scrap end. It can be used for repair of a bad node or for those extra 8 nodes.  (LABEL THE BAG as to which strings they match. Voltage, Color quality/order  and chip vary. Mixing on a string or controller may not go well

12V needs less Inject points. IMHO stick with one voltage (at least per style)

[PhilMassey]

20 minutes ago, kzziboy said:

Like I was saying, most strings I see are 50 bulbs.  Do you just cut the wire and splice them together to make your 108 bulb strings?

I mostly buy 100 pixel strings, but cut, solder, heat shrink will become second nature to make any length you need.

Some vendors will make custom spaced strings for special projects.

[kzziboy]

Sweet.  Thanks.

Any place you swear by to buy the pixel strings?

[Mr. P]

Make sure you buy enough pixels for the entire board from the same vendor/batch plus a few spares. The pixie is a basic controller and the RGB color order can only be set for the entire board and not per port as with the Pixcon16. There is no standard when it comes to pixels and you will find color order all over the place, RGB, BRG, GBR, so if you have different pixels from different vendors and the color order is different then the colors on your lights will be off.

[kzziboy]

One more question...

I have the Basic PLUS software. Suite 3. Is it $120 to upgrade to PRO?

[PhilMassey]

Pro did not come out until S4. The highest license you will be able to use in S3 is Advanced. If I recall the upgrade WILL give you access all the way up to S5 , but I would leave that adventure until the new year.

S4 is not so different to S3 so you could look at that and see if it works for you ( Disclaimer. It's been almost 10 years since I last looked at S3 and almost 2 since I used S4.)

I could never get much use out of S4's Pixel editor and it may be a bit late to check it out this year. 

You should go S5 in 2021.

 

[kzziboy]

No, I wouldn't be worried about this year...

So to upgrade to PRO with S5, the cost is $120, correct?  Or am I missing how that would work?

[PhilMassey]

If I recall, a license  upgrade counts as a renewal also, which gives you the latest release for a year. Might want to check that with the help desk or a phone call. 

[k6ccc]

Correct.  A license upgrade also counts as a renewal.  And yes, $120 from Basic Plus to Pro.  Note that your profile is showing a Basic - not a Basic plus.  If you really have a Basic, the upgrade to Pro is $140.

And I Agree, stay with S4 or even your S3 this year, and launch into S5 after the new year.  Big learning curve.

 

[kzziboy]

When I open my software it says Basic Plus at the top...I must have typed that in incorrectly.

Thank you!