Motion Detector Trigger Times

[c7williams]

So I purchased a PIR-MD-1 motion detector from LOR... I have looked over the connection and setup instructions but I am unsure if there is a way to only have a sequence triggered by the motion detector during a time frame. (after show is over for the night until sunrise).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[k6ccc]

You don't need to worry about that in the sensor.  That would be setup in Show that you are running.  Create a show for the overnight with interactive sequences that are triggered by the PIR.

 

[c7williams]

1 minute ago, k6ccc said:

You don't need to worry about that in the sensor.  That would be setup in Show that you are running.  Create a show for the overnight with interactive sequences that are triggered by the PIR.

 

Can you expand on this? 
 

Within the HU I cannot find an option to where I can set a sequence to be trigged by motion within two time parameters. 

[k6ccc]

I said nothing about the Hardware Utility.  This is done in the Show Editor.  Below are three screens in the Show Editor.  The upper left is the Interactive tab on my Overnight Show.  There are two interactive groups in that show - one called Steps and the the other is Sun is up.  If I select Steps and then the Edit button, I get the upper right image.  That shows three LOR channels that will trigger a sequence as an Interactive with a interactive type of Jukebox (selected when you first create an interactive group).  Each of those three channels is an input on InputPup controller.  You can see that I have Regular, Unit 09, Input 5 selected.  That happens to be a magnetic door switch on my front screen door.  When I select that input and the Edit button, I get the lower left image.  On that screen, I can select the network, Unit ID and Input number (or channel if you prefer), and then what sequence will be played when that trigger happens.  Of course when you are doing this the first time, you use the big PLUS button to create a new item rather than the Edit button as I showed here - since mine have existed for years.

In this case, if someone opens the front screen door, the sequence Steps up from door 2018-08-09.play.las will be triggered.  That sequence will ramp up the lights on the underside of my porch steps from very dim to full bright white with the top step ramping up first followed by the middle and then bottom steps.  After about a minute, the lights ramp back down to the normal dim state.

[c7williams]

6 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

I said nothing about the Hardware Utility.  This is done in the Show Editor.  Below are three screens in the Show Editor.  The upper left is the Interactive tab on my Overnight Show.  There are two interactive groups in that show - one called Steps and the the other is Sun is up.  If I select Steps and then the Edit button, I get the upper right image.  That shows three LOR channels that will trigger a sequence as an Interactive with a interactive type of Jukebox (selected when you first create an interactive group).  Each of those three channels is an input on InputPup controller.  You can see that I have Regular, Unit 09, Input 5 selected.  That happens to be a magnetic door switch on my front screen door.  When I select that input and the Edit button, I get the lower left image.  On that screen, I can select the network, Unit ID and Input number (or channel if you prefer), and then what sequence will be played when that trigger happens.  Of course when you are doing this the first time, you use the big PLUS button to create a new item rather than the Edit button as I showed here - since mine have existed for years.

In this case, if someone opens the front screen door, the sequence Steps up from door 2018-08-09.play.las will be triggered.  That sequence will ramp up the lights on the underside of my porch steps from very dim to full bright white with the top step ramping up first followed by the middle and then bottom steps.  After about a minute, the lights ramp back down to the normal dim state.

Thank you for the detailed response. I never thought to explore show editor. I only saw instructions relating to HU on the LOR documentation.
 

I followed everything you said except I’m just confused about one part. For example your front door trigger. How is that hooked up? In the documentation I read it said that the motion detectors were to be wired to the some pins on the LOR controller for power as well as a control wire. Are there multiple of these on the board? Confused on why your door is under “input 5”. Or is that the standard location for here to hook up these types of devices. 
 

Also once I create this show in the show editor, I would simply just add it to my schedule for the time slots desired correct? No need to load the sequence onto the controller as indicated in the documentation I read. This is what I read. http://www.lightorama.com/Documents/UseMotionDetector.pdf
 

Thanks in advance. This is super helpful. I have never dabbed into trigger events before and now I think you’re going to have me jumping in deeper into this adventure with more then just motion detectors. 

[k6ccc]

12 minutes ago, c7williams said:

Confused on why your door is under “input 5”. Or is that the standard location for here to hook up these types of devices. 

I am using the LOR InputPup for inputs.  This is an eight input controller.  At this time, I am using six of the eight inputs.  The front door switch just happens to be input #5.

7 minutes ago, c7williams said:

I followed everything you said except I’m just confused about one part. For example your front door trigger. How is that hooked up? In the documentation I read it said that the motion detectors were to be wired to the some pins on the LOR controller for power as well as a control wire. Are there multiple of these on the board?

In the case of my front door switch (and the other three inputs used in the Steps group), they are dry contact switch or relay closures, so it is just a two wire hookup with one connection to ground pin and one to an input.  The other two in that group are IR light beams that do require power, but I am not powering them from the InputPup (it has no ability to do so).
 

[c7williams]

6 hours ago, k6ccc said:

I am using the LOR InputPup for inputs.  This is an eight input controller.  At this time, I am using six of the eight inputs.  The front door switch just happens to be input #5.

In the case of my front door switch (and the other three inputs used in the Steps group), they are dry contact switch or relay closures, so it is just a two wire hookup with one connection to ground pin and one to an input.  The other two in that group are IR light beams that do require power, but I am not powering them from the InputPup (it has no ability to do so).
 

Sorry I missed the part where you said you had a inputPup controller... any idea what the unit and input number would be for me when hooking up to a standard 16 channel controller using the instructions in the link would be? 
 

Or do you think if I hook it up that way then I would have to load the sequence through HU and now be able to schedule it with show builder and scheduler? 
 

Where did you buy your inputpup controller? They do they connect into the LOR network. Maybe I should just do that. 

[TheDucks]

2 hours ago, c7williams said:

Sorry I missed the part where you said you had a inputPup controller... any idea what the unit and input number would be for me when hooking up to a standard 16 channel controller using the instructions in the link would be? 
 

Or do you think if I hook it up that way then I would have to load the sequence through HU and now be able to schedule it with show builder and scheduler? 
 

Where did you buy your inputpup controller? They do they connect into the LOR network. Maybe I should just do that. 

The unit should be that of the box (controller).  IIRC you can not use Inputs on an Enhanced network.

The advantage of the inputpup is additional flexibility.  (premises placement is one)

[c7williams]

8 minutes ago, TheDucks said:

IIRC you can not use Inputs on an Enhanced network.

Thank you! I probably would of been pulling my hair out trying to figure out why it wouldn’t work. 

[k6ccc]

3 hours ago, c7williams said:

Where did you buy your inputpup controller? They do they connect into the LOR network. Maybe I should just do that.

From LOR.  Yes, it just looks like another LOR controller - except it is 8 inputs and zero outputs.

http://store.lightorama.com/inputpup.html

 

4 hours ago, c7williams said:

Sorry I missed the part where you said you had a inputPup controller... any idea what the unit and input number would be for me when hooking up to a standard 16 channel controller using the instructions in the link would be? 

As TheDucks said, the Unit ID will be whatever Unit ID you have set for your CTB16 controller.  Here are a few screen shots that I did for you:

First, in the Hardware Utility, I have scanned Comm Port 4 (which is my Aux A network).  During the off season, there are five controllers on that network.  Unit 11 is a Gen 3 16 channel AC controller that normally controls my front porch light, and three down lights in a bay window.  It is far more loaded during Christmas...  When you first select the controller it will come up like this.  In the Red oval, change the Test Mode to Test Inputs (the purple arrow).

Now you are in the Inputs testing mode.  Note the message highlighted in yellow that TheDucks mentioned.  You can not use Inputs on an Enhanced network.  Select Config (the green arrow).

On the config page, you can select for each input as a switch normally open or switch normally closed (the blue oval).  Let me explain this a little.  The controller has a pull up resistor on each input that pulls the voltage of that input up to some voltage.  The CPU then reads the voltage of the pin.  When you close the switch (between the input pin and ground), it drops that voltage to zero.  So what the N/O vs N/C setting does is tell the controller CPU that the input is active (vs idle) when there is either voltage present or not.  In MOST cases, you will leave the setting to N/O so that when you press the switch, the input voltage will go to zero and the CPU will detect that as active.  There are cases where that may not be the case, and the setting allows you to compensate for that.  Note that after changing an input, you must press the Update Unit button (the purple arrow).  Also note that although there are 8 inputs shown, as I recall, only the first couple are actually present on 16 channel AC controllers.  I don't use the inputs on any of my AC or DC controllers EXCEPT the InputPup because all my lighting controllers always operate on Enhanced LOR networks.  The InputPup is all alone on my Regular LOR network which is non-enhanced.

For this example, I have changed Input 1 to be N/C.  That means that a zero value is idle and a higher voltage is active. 

Since I don't have anything hooked to that input, when I go back to the Test page (the green arrow), and set Test Mode to Test Inputs (the red arrow), you will see that input 1 is now showing active (the green highlight and checkmark).

Note, I have ALWAYS run my show from a computer (rather than a director), so show building has always been done in the Show Editor, and the Show Editor gives FAR more capability than the Simple Show builder (which has now largely been replaced with The Hub).

Did that help?

 

[c7williams]

37 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

From LOR.  Yes, it just looks like another LOR controller - except it is 8 inputs and zero outputs.

http://store.lightorama.com/inputpup.html

 

As TheDucks said, the Unit ID will be whatever Unit ID you have set for your CTB16 controller.  Here are a few screen shots that I did for you:

First, in the Hardware Utility, I have scanned Comm Port 4 (which is my Aux A network).  During the off season, there are five controllers on that network.  Unit 11 is a Gen 3 16 channel AC controller that normally controls my front porch light, and three down lights in a bay window.  It is far more loaded during Christmas...  When you first select the controller it will come up like this.  In the Red oval, change the Test Mode to Test Inputs (the purple arrow).

Now you are in the Inputs testing mode.  Note the message highlighted in yellow that TheDucks mentioned.  You can not use Inputs on an Enhanced network.  Select Config (the green arrow).

On the config page, you can select for each input as a switch normally open or switch normally closed (the blue oval).  Let me explain this a little.  The controller has a pull up resistor on each input that pulls the voltage of that input up to some voltage.  The CPU then reads the voltage of the pin.  When you close the switch (between the input pin and ground), it drops that voltage to zero.  So what the N/O vs N/C setting does is tell the controller CPU that the input is active (vs idle) when there is either voltage present or not.  In MOST cases, you will leave the setting to N/O so that when you press the switch, the input voltage will go to zero and the CPU will detect that as active.  There are cases where that may not be the case, and the setting allows you to compensate for that.  Note that after changing an input, you must press the Update Unit button (the purple arrow).  Also note that although there are 8 inputs shown, as I recall, only the first couple are actually present on 16 channel AC controllers.  I don't use the inputs on any of my AC or DC controllers EXCEPT the InputPup because all my lighting controllers always operate on Enhanced LOR networks.  The InputPup is all alone on my Regular LOR network which is non-enhanced.

For this example, I have changed Input 1 to be N/C.  That means that a zero value is idle and a higher voltage is active. 

Since I don't have anything hooked to that input, when I go back to the Test page (the green arrow), and set Test Mode to Test Inputs (the red arrow), you will see that input 1 is now showing active (the green highlight and checkmark).

Note, I have ALWAYS run my show from a computer (rather than a director), so show building has always been done in the Show Editor, and the Show Editor gives FAR more capability than the Simple Show builder (which has now largely been replaced with The Hub).

Did that help?

 

Yes! That was very very informative and helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to throughly explain this and provide some screenshots. 
 

I also run everything via the show editor and scheduler... never done the director nonsense  

I do still have 1 question. Currently I have 5 CTB16D’s, 7 Pixie16s and 4 Pixie2s. Everything is daisy chained together on a enhanced 500k network.  I have never ran multiple networks before. So when I buy that inputpup you dropped the link for I will simply just configure it to be on a different network and have both mg black and red dongle plugged in? With that being said let’s say I have an event get triggered on the regular network (with no lights on the network), will the event get sent back to the PC then out the red adapter to my lights on the enhanced network to active the sequence or must I have to have lights on that network? 
 

How large is the inputpup? If I buy a standard case from LOR will it fit inside? 
 

 

[k6ccc]

The InputPup is quite small.  Setting up two networks is easy.  Just add the second USB adapter.  My suggestion is to watch the Device Manager to see what Comm port is assigned when it is plugged in for the first time.  Then in Network preferences, add the second LOR network with the comm port observed in the Device Manager.

 

[TheDucks]

As Jim suggested, you can use the device manage to see what Com is assigned.

You can also use the Device Manager to change the port number.

My laptop was used for other things, so lower COM ports were used (and I wanted to leave them)

So my LOR adapters start at 11,12,13 on the Laptop.

Since I wanted to develop on another system, I plugged in the adapters (marked with LOR Net name) and set the COM to the same number.

now, I can develop on the desktop, and run on the Laptop with no fuss

[c7williams]

@TheDucks @k6ccc Having some issues. Motion detector is hooked up and it is detecting motion when there is no motion. See below pics and video.

[k6ccc]

When you see it triggering every 5 seconds, that is what you see when it is continuously triggered.  Most likely the Normally Open vs Normally Closed setting in the Hardware Utility is backwards.  As a quick test, intentionally trigger it continuously for 20 seconds or so.  Then look at the LOR status panel to see if the 5 second re-trigger goes away for that 20 seconds.

If you go into the HU, and look at the Inputs to see if it is Green (triggered).

 

 

[c7williams]

[c7williams]

Trying to upload more photos of how its connected but this stupid forum wont allow me to upload anything more then 3kb....... ughhhhhhh

[c7williams]

10 minutes ago, k6ccc said:

When you see it triggering every 5 seconds, that is what you see when it is continuously triggered.  Most likely the Normally Open vs Normally Closed setting in the Hardware Utility is backwards.  As a quick test, intentionally trigger it continuously for 20 seconds or so.  Then look at the LOR status panel to see if the 5 second re-trigger goes away for that 20 seconds.

If you go into the HU, and look at the Inputs to see if it is Green (triggered).

 

 

Yes when i intentionally triggered it for 20 seconds the lights did not come on and there were no trigger events in the status panel

[c7williams]

Photos of how it is connected

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17qN77MBDfAocGN57Ugrs4pv5C25ReqHs/view?usp=sharing

[k6ccc]

NO / NC is reversed.  This has nothing to do with your motion sensor.  It is how your input device is configured.  In case you don't see my image, there is a link to it below.  The Green arrow is where you select the desired Comm Port.  The Red arrow sets tests for the Inputs.  The Purple arrow shows that Input #3 has been triggered.  If you click Config at the bottom, you can change the NO / NC setting for that input.  Sorry, I can't do another screen capture because my landscaping show is running at this time.

http://www.newburghlights.org/images/HU_Input_Test.jpg

BTW, depending on your motion sensor, you MAY be able to change NO vs NC in the Motion Sensor, but it is so easy to do it in HU that is not much point in it unless that is a special reason to do so.